You're moving your horsey wrong

[Pheidippides]

No, I was laughing at the notion that our current exodus is caused by the church dropping so many demands and standards and being too accommodating to differing levels of belief. I haven't noticed any significant changes.

Me either, as I prepare to send an email to my bishopric in which I reject their involuntary assignment of me substituting in primary this week and call them out in it.

[smokymountainrain]

Me either, as I prepare to send an email to my bishopric in which I reject their involuntary assignment of me substituting in primary this week and call them out in it.

They planned for you to substitute without first asking you? Wtf? If you're out of town, does that mean you find a sub for an assignment you never agreed to in the first place? sheesh

[UtahDan]

Me either, as I prepare to send an email to my bishopric in which I reject their involuntary assignment of me substituting in primary this week and call them out in it.

Lol. They obviously don't know you like we do.

[Paperback Writer]

I think the church has encouraged members to use their time more wisely, limiting the number of and duration of their meetings. Unfortunately, in my experience, it hasn't really changed anything.

In my view, a lot of it is lip service. And it can vary at the ward and stake level. If new leadership strictly adheres to the handbook, it can even go the other way.

IMO, using one's time more wisely would allow people to decide if they want home teachers to visit, if they want Deacons to knock on their door on fast Sunday, etc. And when people do make those choices by voting with their feet (not attending stupid meetings) they are accused of not sustaining their leaders. I recently went the rounds with a WML because I wouldn't accept the challenge to have someone taught in my home by the missionaries by the end of the calendar year.

[Pheidippides]

They planned for you to substitute without first asking you? Wtf? If you're out of town, does that mean you find a sub for an assignment you never agreed to in the first place? sheesh

Yeah. It's slightly different than that but not much; in combined meeting third hour they passed around a sign up sheet for people to sub in primary this next week so the women could all attend some meeting or other. I considered signing up to teach my son's class but couldn't figure out which one was his. They then got the list back and chided us for not being better volunteers and said they'd make assignments. Didn't think they'd do it until I got an email from the primary presidency telling me my class (sunbeams).

Fact of the matter is I can do it but I so rankle at the very concept that a lawyerly-worded nasty gram is going back tonight. Not to the poor primary presidency but the counselor in the bishopric. This is to save him from being destroyed by my wife on Wednesday - she was more pissed than I was on my behalf.

I can think of a bunch of reasons why this kind of assignment is a very bad idea independent of my own rebellion.

UD, they absolutely do not know me like you all do. As a rule I am the quiet and contemplative guy in the back who sometimes says stuff using a bunch or words nobody understands to obfuscate the fact that my real message is that they are all taking crazy pills.

[Paperback Writer]

Yeah. It's slightly different than that but not much; in combined meeting third hour they passed around a sign up sheet for people to sub in primary this next week so the women could all attend some meeting or other. I considered signing up to teach my son's class but couldn't figure out which one was his. They then got the list back and chided us for not being better volunteers and said they'd make assignments. Didn't think they'd do it until I got an email from the primary presidency telling me my class (sunbeams).

Fact of the matter is I can do it but I so rankle at the very concept that a lawyerly-worded nasty gram is going back tonight. Not to the poor primary presidency but the counselor in the bishopric. This is to save him from being destroyed by my wife on Wednesday - she was more pissed than I was on my behalf.

I can think of a bunch of reasons why this kind of assignment is a very bad idea independent of my own rebellion.

UD, they absolutely do not know me like you all do. As a rule I am the quiet and contemplative guy in the back who sometimes says stuff using a bunch or words nobody understands to obfuscate the fact that my real message is that they are all taking crazy pills.

This is going to reflect poorly on your annual performance review. My point is that members are too often treated as employees instead of volunteers.

It also reminds me of a time, years ago, when my EQP wanted an EQ meeting with all (or as many as possible) of his quorum in attendance. There were more Elders teaching in primary than were attending EQ. So the EQP tries to set up this special meeting only to get shot down by the PP and RSP. But at least twice a year, the RS has a program for all the sisters and the EQ/HPG is expected to cover primary and YW during the third hour.

[myboynoah]

Damn. 5 minutes and I'm outta there.

LOL, you didn't make it past the first question.

[Omaha 680]

Yeah. It's slightly different than that but not much; in combined meeting third hour they passed around a sign up sheet for people to sub in primary this next week so the women could all attend some meeting or other. I considered signing up to teach my son's class but couldn't figure out which one was his. They then got the list back and chided us for not being better volunteers and said they'd make assignments. Didn't think they'd do it until I got an email from the primary presidency telling me my class (sunbeams).

Fact of the matter is I can do it but I so rankle at the very concept that a lawyerly-worded nasty gram is going back tonight. Not to the poor primary presidency but the counselor in the bishopric. This is to save him from being destroyed by my wife on Wednesday - she was more pissed than I was on my behalf.

I can think of a bunch of reasons why this kind of assignment is a very bad idea independent of my own rebellion.

UD, they absolutely do not know me like you all do. As a rule I am the quiet and contemplative guy in the back who sometimes says stuff using a bunch or words nobody understands to obfuscate the fact that my real message is that they are all taking crazy pills.

Why are you so upset? I'm genuinely curious. I can understand being mad at an compulsory assignment that requires time outside of church. I don't like those either, and I can think of few cirumstances where I would be comfortable extending one of those. But you're going to be there anyway and they need help.

No one likes to be told they have to do something and I certainly handle assigments as invitations. But even if your bishopric are poor managers or even jerks, try to see it from their side as a group of people who are tasked with more than can ever be completed, yet have access to about 5 people outside of the ward council who are willing to help voluntarily on a consistent basis.

Please don't destroy with lawerly words. I am being sincere.

[Moliere]

Our ward still does the same amount of activities. But now they are done by ad hoc committees in a far less efficient manner.

Ours doesn't. We have maybe 3 or 4. We used to have at least 6. I actually like this change because I tend to hate ward activities.

30 minutes every other year.

Yeah, tell that to your bishop or SP.

You got me there. But that only affects a small number of people in leadership positions.

Leadership was the place that needed the reduction. Your typical guy that teaches primary just goes home and watches football. Leadership has to sit around and hold meetings. Thankfully the meetings are being cut.

Anecdotal. And that work is still being done by someone. When someone is released, they call someone else.

Yes, but it shows a softening to callings. It used to be that you would never ask to be released or you would never say no. Now orthodox members are willing to do both. We've had a bishopric counselor request it and a high councilman, not to mention several others. The point is that if someone wants more time, they can have it and not feel as much guilt.

I also forgot about the women. Our RS hold quarterly enrichment (or whatever it is called) meetings. These used to be monthly. They can probably still hold them monthly but I don't see that anywhere in our stake. This is a huge change as these things were a large drain on the RS resources. When MJ was RSP they were required to hold these monthly and the stress/planning involved was insane.

[Moliere]

Damn. 5 minutes and I'm outta there.

This is me. I once was in a hurry and the 2CSP starts asking me questions about my work and family. I cut him off after 30 seconds and told him I had to be somewhere. He was a little put off, but then we went through the questions and I was gone in 5 minutes. I'm sure the 5 people waiting in the foyer were happy that I was quick.

[Moliere]

Why are you so upset?

Because it'll eat into his running time

Niku, just take candy and play games with the Sunbeams. They'll think you are the coolest person in the world....or at least the ward.

[clackamascoug]

Okie dokie then....

[Pheidippides]

Why are you so upset? I'm genuinely curious. I can understand being mad at an compulsory assignment that requires time outside of church. I don't like those either, and I can think of few cirumstances where I would be comfortable extending one of those. But you're going to be there anyway and they need help.

No one likes to be told they have to do something and I certainly handle assigments as invitations. But even if your bishopric are poor managers or even jerks, try to see it from their side as a group of people who are tasked with more than can ever be completed, yet have access to about 5 people outside of the ward council who are willing to help voluntarily on a consistent basis.

Please don't destroy with lawerly words. I am being sincere.

I have a strict no assignments policy borne from hard experience. This is for several reasons, including but not limited to the fact that it runs counter to how I read the scriptures (D&C 121 jumps to mind). I refuse to be walked over or treated with less courtesy than I would at a job for which I am well compensated. I refuse to accept the assumption that I'm willing to do whatever. There are other myriad reasons that I don't care to go into.

Ask for volunteers and I may do it. Ask me personally if I will do it and history shows I most certainly will, unless I have a conflict. Attempt to give me no choice in the matter and you deserve what you get, which will be a big fat no, regardless of anything else.

Now, the truth is that I almost volunteered to teach my son's class except I couldn't figure out which one was his. So I'm going to give them an out by volunteering to teach that class. But I will only do this after making my own personal policy clear- privately. I feel exceptionally strong about this.

[Jeff Lebowski]

How did we get thread jacked to time commitment? That isn't the point.

[CardiacCoug]

This was a good thread. Kind of surprised I never participated in it. Some random thoughts:

Of course scriptures are valuable mainly as allegories and myths. Especially the BOM and most of the Bible really has to be viewed that way in my opinion. Truth is truth: most of the events described in the Scriptures never happened.

TBM stands for True Believer Mormon (IMO).

I wish we had a Reformed LDS Church a la Judaism: more liberal WofW focused on weight and exercise and allowing one alcoholic beverage per day, one hour Church with a paid clergy and intelligent sermon during that hour, women with the Priesthood, gays welcome. I would pay 20% tithing for that kind of Church.

I think there are quite a few people who participate in the LDS Church on their own terms. I have a good friend here in SLC who hasn't had a temple recommend or a calling in 10 years, attends Church about half the time, does not completely observe the WofW, and has reached an understanding with his Bishop that he still can baptize and ordain his kids. That's possibly more common in an East SLC ward because there are so many Mos that are completely non-participating that the Church leaders tend to be happy with whatever degree of participation they can get from people.