Christ returning "like a thief in the night"

[Indy Coug]

Does anyone care to speculate what this scriptural reference (1 Thess 5:2)means? When a thief comes in the night, do you not wake up and don't realize what has happened until well after the thief has come and gone, or are you soundly asleep and jarred awake by the presence of someone you didn't expect in your house?

Will Christ oh so quietly appear to a handful of people and leave for a space of time, leaving most people unawares, or does he come in with the Celestrial Brass Band and MoTab All-Stars and guns a blazing?

[Fiyero]

A thief doesn't send a certified letter saying "I'm going to burglarize you on Jan 5." Nor does he raise a ruckus jingling the neighbor's fence, shining a flashlight on himself, or selecting a home with an activated alarm.

Element of surprise.

[TripletDaddy]

A thief doesn't send a certified letter saying "I'm going to burglarize you on Jan 5." Nor does he raise a ruckus jingling the neighbor's fence, shining a flashlight on himself, or selecting a home with an activated alarm.

Element of surprise.

The "element of surprise" answer is definitely the party line and I agree with the interpretation, but I have always found the concept to be fairly stupid.

Why does the Second Coming have to be shrouded in surprise? Based on human history, Christ can announce the exact date of His coming and many will still refuse to believe. The world will still be filled with both wicked and righteous, there will still be a need for a universal Atonement, everyone will require ordinances, and every knee will still have to bow, every tongue will still have to confess.

Is the assumption that without the surprise, mankind will all rush to repent and be baptized just prior to the Second Coming? Well.....why is that a bad thing? It actually sounds like a really good net result and much better than the percentages we are realizing currently. Boo-hoo...the entire world joined the Church right before the Second Coming!

[scottie]

Is the assumption that without the surprise, mankind will all rush to repent and be baptized just prior to the Second Coming? Well.....why is that a bad thing? It actually sounds like a really good net result and much better than the percentages we are realizing currently. Boo-hoo...the entire world joined the Church right before the Second Coming!

A couple-missionary (the husband) who I served a mission with -- that feels like horrible grammar, sorry -- would say that deathbed repentance is better than nothing.

[Fiyero]

To answer DDD, I guess that if people knew the return was on Jan 5, 2010, they would eat, drink and be merry until Jan 2 or so, and suddenly pull a few overnighters cramming for finals. That type of scenario reeks of insincerity. Christ wants people with prolongued righteousness, always being prepared.

[falafel]

The "element of surprise" answer is definitely the party line and I agree with the interpretation, but I have always found the concept to be fairly stupid.

Why does the Second Coming have to be shrouded in surprise? Based on human history, Christ can announce the exact date of His coming and many will still refuse to believe. The world will still be filled with both wicked and righteous, there will still be a need for a universal Atonement, everyone will require ordinances, and every knee will still have to bow, every tongue will still have to confess.

Is the assumption that without the surprise, mankind will all rush to repent and be baptized just prior to the Second Coming? Well.....why is that a bad thing? It actually sounds like a really good net result and much better than the percentages we are realizing currently. Boo-hoo...the entire world joined the Church right before the Second Coming!

Duh, DDD, if Christ announced the date and time of his second coming, we'd have a world full of Argentina-caliber converts. That's not going to help anyone - not even the newly baptized Argentinians!

[TripletDaddy]

To answer DDD, I guess that if people knew the return was on Jan 5, 2010, they would eat, drink and be merry until Jan 2 or so, and suddenly pull a few overnighters cramming for finals. Christ wants people with prolongued righteousness, always being prepared.

Yes, I know this is the party line. But it is a fairly lacking answer.

In the pre-mortal existence we had:

1. Those that were righteous for the sake of being righteous
2. Those that were wicked but would eventually change their ways
3. Those that didnt change and refused to believe

When Christ was walking the Earth in the flesh we had:

1. Those that were righteous for the sake of being righteous
2. Those that were wicked but would eventually change their ways
3. Those that never changed and refused to believe

Currently, without knowing the date of the final, we have:

1. Those that are righteous for the sake of being righteous
2. Those that are wicked but will eventually change their ways
3. Those that will never change and refuse to believe

If we did know the date of the final, we would have:

1. Those that are righteous for the sake of being righteous
2. Those that are wicked but will eventually change their ways
3. Those that will never change and refuse to believe.

Nothing changes. Your reference to deathbed repentance....what is wrong with deathbed repentance for some folks? At least they are doing something, rather than nothing at all. It doesn't preclude us from repenting daily and being faithful. And doctrinally speaking, if their conversions were insincere, the Final Judgment would weed those people out, anyway.

"Element of Surprise" theory is weak.

Keep in mind that I don't blame you for providing these lacking and uninspired responses. I agree that they are the ones we have been taught our whole lives but unfortunately make little sense and don't withstand even the slightest scrutiny.

[Indy Coug]

I think the recurring theme is that God tries to make us rely on faith as much as possible.

[TripletDaddy]

I think the recurring theme is that God tries to make us rely on faith as much as possible.

Exactly. Just like a thief.

[Fiyero]

When you suddenly find yourself in need of an attorney and your life depends on it, do you want some hotshot who took the bar exam three days ago, or someone who has been successfully practicing for twenty years?

On your first day of law school, suppose you were informed of what the three essays would be on the bar. Would you have studied all fourteen subjects?

[TripletDaddy]

When you suddenly find yourself in need of an attorney and your life depends on it, do you want some hotshot who took the bar exam three days ago, or someone who has been successfully practicing for twenty years?

On your first day of law school, suppose you were informed of what the three essays would be on the bar. Would you have studied all fourteen subjects?

I understand your original answer so additional (and frankly, more puzzling) examples are not necessary.

Christ walked the Earth. Some people believed, some did not.

If Christ gave us the exact date of the second coming, some would prepare well in advance, some would wait until the last second, and some would not prepare at all. Knowing the date doesn't change human nature. Check out the parable with the lamps and the oil and the big procession. It ends with some people that knew but still procrastinated, while others knew and were prepared.

[SeattleUte]

I haven't read this thread. Is this about Christ Peterson?

[TripletDaddy]

I haven't read this thread. Is this about Christ Peterson?

It is about Florida Governor Charlie Crist's surprise bid for the US Presidency. Everyone is waiting for the official announcement, but nobody is exactly sure when he will make it.

Apparently, if we all knew the date of his official announcement, we wouldn't study for the bar exam.

[Fiyero]

Now you're just trolling. I should have known all along.

[TripletDaddy]

Now you're just trolling. I should have known all along.

It isn't trolling. Simply put, the answers are not very satisfactory.

However, again, this isn't your fault (or mine). I don't have an answer for this, either and I fully recognize that the "element of surprise" theory is the one most commonly/almost exclusively offered in Sunday School class. It is just a very weak answer, at least as presently constituted.

I like Indy's generalized conclusion......if we stick to the premise that the Lord wants us to exercise faith, it is very difficult to contradict the conclusion. It makes sense.

However, once you start trying to speculate about specifics, conjecturing that people would wait until the last second to repent, and that such a thing would be an overall negative, etc....then it becomes very easy to contradict the conclusion because it is full of holes and inconsistencies.

I would note that it is not entirely without merit or scriptural precedent, as we are clearly admonished to not procrastinate our repentance.