Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Shakespeare wasn't Shakespeare

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Shakespeare wasn't Shakespeare

    I think I mentioned a book I was reading in the books thread ('Shakespeare by Another Name'), but it's actually mostly convinced me, and I think it's potentially the most fascinating case of mistaken identity in history. At least it fascinates me, but I'm OK if I'm the only one.

    I first became familiar with this theory during a Shakespeare class I took as a senior in high school. My teacher introduced it, dismissed it, and then I never gave it a second thought. At least until recently when one of my profs from the UK mentioned this book to me in an email exchange and commented that he was nearly persuaded.

    There are two parts to the case:
    1. The William Shakespeare of Stratford on Avon could not have written the bullk of the plays attributed to him
    2. The most likely candidate for the actual author is the very literary Earl of Oxford, Edward De Vere


    One of the things that got my attention and convinced me to at least hear it out is the roster of intellectuals who have publicly stated their view that the historical William Shakespeare simply couldn't have been equipped with the span of courtly, legal and foreign culture knowledge that the author had. That list ranges from Mark Twain, to Freud, to Walt Whitman to people like Justices Breyer and O'Connor in the current day.

    On this point - that William Shakespeare of Stratford was not the author of most of these plays - I'm about 90% convinced. There are simply too many gaps in his biography. There are no letters, diaries or any detailed information outside of some legal documents involving business ventures that verify the literary genius we believe him to be. There is no record of him traveling anywhere outside the roads that connected Stratford with London or of him having any formal education - yet he writes with detailed awareness of foreign courts, composes an entire scene of Henry V in courtly and bawdy French and locates more plays in Italy and France than he does in England.

    On the second point - that Edward De Vere, the Earl of Oxford - was the author of most of them, I'm about 60% convinced.

    The parallels and biographical facts from the life of De Vere provide both plausible educational background and life experience that could have fed into many of Shakespeare's works - for example, that De Vere lived in Venice for a stretch in the 1570s and accumulated debts which very plausibly would have been owed to Jewish merchants - Will Shakespeare, meanwhile, never left the narrow circuit between Warwickshire, Oxfordshire and London.

    Another item - the exactness of Shakespeare's understanding of legal procedure and protocol and often the finer points of legal thinking has often been thought to be incongruous with the playwright whose wife, daughters and parents were all borderline illiterate. De Vere's earliest tutor of several years, Sir Thomas Smith, was one of the most noted law teachers of the century, and De Vere was later a graduate of Gray's Inn.

    In one of the most interesting data points, Shakepspeare's historical plays go out of their way to laud De Vere's recent forebears - in Henry VI, De Vere's great-grandfather the 13th Earl of Oxford is referred to, sometimes a little gratuitously, at different points as "brave Oxford," "valiant Oxford," and "sweet Oxford."

    De Vere's motives for hiding his identity are pretty straightforward - 1. he was painfully candid about his views on members of the Elizabethan world and his plays were loaded with allusions which would have been very easily recognized were he known to be the author and 2. being a playwright generally wasn't thought to be fitting work for a member of the high nobility. Consequently, he put a number of his works in circulation in the literary communities he worked in without having his name attached to them - leaving them open for plagiarism and as Henry James put it "the most successful fraud ever practiced on a patient world."

    Anyway - to make a long story long, I think this is a movie waiting to happen. At the very least, it's a damn interesting read. The life of Edward De Vere is pretty riveting even if he wasn't the real Shakespeare.
    Last edited by oxcoug; 01-22-2011, 10:00 AM.
    Ute-ī sunt fīmī differtī

    It can't all be wedding cake.

  • #2
    BLASPHEMY!

    We are all Shakespeare!

    http://www.newyorker.com/archive/199...IBRY_000015360
    "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
    The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Viking
      This is more "Blink" than anything else, but I consume european lit voraciously and have read most of shakespeare and i can tell you, gun to my head, the authorship is not consistent.

      One of my problems w mormonism is how consistent the BoM and DoC are in authorship--again, a "Blink" perspective that I can't prove emperically.
      You seem to be arguing for multiple authorship, which is not really what oxcoug is arguing. The only argument I've heard for that is the sheer volume of work produced, not inconsistency of style (like you seem to be alluding to with your BOM-DoC comparison).
      At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
      -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Viking
        This is more "Blink" than anything else, but I consume european lit voraciously and have read most of shakespeare and i can tell you, gun to my head, the authorship is not consistent.

        One of my problems w mormonism is how consistent the BoM and DoC are in authorship--again, a "Blink" perspective that I can't prove emperically.

        Yes - the inconsistency is one of the points examined in this book, and while the author makes the case that De Vere is the primary source of "William Shakespeare's" plays, he also notes that the plagiarist in question clearly lifted from a number of playwrights.

        He also documents multiple references from leading writers in the 1590s to one writer (who doesn't get mentioned by name, but in metaphors and allusions) that they accused of stealing other's work to build his own name - Ben Jonson calls him the "poet-ape" who "would be thought our chief." The question arises - why didn't they just call him out if they knew?

        The answer seems to be - they did. But the primary source of his plagiarisms, Edward De Vere, needed to be protected - and they couldn't fully expose Shakespeare, without exposing De Vere.
        Ute-ī sunt fīmī differtī

        It can't all be wedding cake.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
          You seem to be arguing for multiple authorship, which is not really what oxcoug is arguing. The only argument I've heard for that is the sheer volume of work produced, not inconsistency of style (like you seem to be alluding to with your BOM-DoC comparison).
          Sort of both actually (see my post above).
          Ute-ī sunt fīmī differtī

          It can't all be wedding cake.

          Comment


          • #6
            I know I keep plugging Jasper Fforde's Thursday Next Series, but it contains some hilarious treatment of this very issue. Different literary "sects" have formed around supposed authors of the plays, including the "Baconites" &c. Literary hilarity ensues.

            As to the actual author, oxcoug's book sounds interesting. I'm entirely open to the idea that it wasn't Shakespeare at Stratford-upon-Avon. I've partially not spent a great deal of energy divining the identity of the individual(s?) behind the plays because it simply doesn't matter that much to me. The longevity of the plays speaks for itself—and their sheer applicability to so many aspects of human nature, even five hundred years later.

            As Viking points out, the plays certainly aren't consistent. Whether that's attributable to some plagiarism by a single author or by the collusion of several/many brains is highly debatable. (As evidenced by the fact books are still being written about it, I suppose.)

            Anyway, I'll check out the book, ox. Thanks for the suggestion.
            "You know, I was looking at your shirt and your scarf and I was thinking that if you had leaned over, I could have seen everything." ~Trial Ad Judge

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mrs. Funk View Post
              I know I keep plugging Jasper Fforde's Thursday Next Series, but it contains some hilarious treatment of this very issue. Different literary "sects" have formed around supposed authors of the plays, including the "Baconites" &c. Literary hilarity ensues.

              As to the actual author, oxcoug's book sounds interesting. I'm entirely open to the idea that it wasn't Shakespeare at Stratford-upon-Avon. I've partially not spent a great deal of energy divining the identity of the individual(s?) behind the plays because it simply doesn't matter that much to me. The longevity of the plays speaks for itself—and their sheer applicability to so many aspects of human nature, even five hundred years later.

              As Viking points out, the plays certainly aren't consistent. Whether that's attributable to some plagiarism by a single author or by the collusion of several/many brains is highly debatable. (As evidenced by the fact books are still being written about it, I suppose.)

              Anyway, I'll check out the book, ox. Thanks for the suggestion.
              Cool Mrs Funk I'll check that out. Yeah there are the Baconians, the Marlovians and the Oxfordians.... I think even this author is open to the probability that multiple minds contributed to Shakespeare.

              In fact he cites this epigram by Ben Jonson which he believes is a direct description of Shakespeare. (Published in 1599).

              Poor Poet Ape, that would be thought our chief, [the date of 1599 certainly points to Shakespeare for anyone that would be thought to be "chief" in the literary community]
              Whose works are e’en the frippery of wit,
              From Brokage is become so bold a thief
              As we, the robbed, leave rage and pity it.
              At first he made low shifts, would pick and glean,
              Buy the reversion of old plays, now grown
              To a little wealth, and credit on the scene, [IMPLICATION: the "poet-ape" acquired some influence and began stealing plays]
              He takes up all, makes each man’s wit his own,
              And told of this, he slights it. Tut, such crimes
              The sluggish, gaping auditor devours;
              He marks not whose ‘twas first, and aftertimes
              May judge it to be his, as well as ours.
              Fool! as if half-eyes will not know a fleece
              From locks of wool, or shreds from the whole piece.
              Ute-ī sunt fīmī differtī

              It can't all be wedding cake.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Viking
                This is more "Blink" than anything else, but I consume european lit voraciously and have read most of shakespeare and i can tell you, gun to my head, the authorship is not consistent.

                One of my problems w mormonism is how consistent the BoM and DoC are in authorship--again, a "Blink" perspective that I can't prove emperically.
                This is funny. I know you didn't intend it to be, but it's hilarious.

                As for the book, and correct me if I'm wrong as its been some time since I read it, but I don't remember him making any connection between Will and De Vere.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think people are overlooking the possibility that he translated them from a ancient record given to him by an...never mind.

                  (Sorry, couldn't resist! )

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Viking
                    One of my problems w mormonism is how consistent the BoM and DoC are in authorship--again, a "Blink" perspective that I can't prove emperically.
                    This makes no sense. Are you trying to say that Solomon Spalding also wrote the D&C?
                    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The book is now sitting on my end table waiting to be read. I look forward to reading it.

                      I may be small, but I'm slow.

                      A veteran - whether active duty, retired, or national guard or reserve is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to, "The United States of America ", for an amount of "up to and including my life - it's an honor."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm not shocked that no one has commented on my post, but I'll just point out that Borges addressed this angst a long time ago.
                        "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
                        The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by happyone View Post
                          The book is now sitting on my end table waiting to be read. I look forward to reading it.
                          Cool. It's a good read. Knowing that you're going to read it I'll add one critical comment -

                          The author is very good when he's dealing with the historical aspects of De Vere's life. But he occasionally annoyed me with speculative jumps between Shakespearian text and De Vere's biography, so be prepared for that.

                          But all up it reads like some very good detective work, it has some very credible recommendations from the New York Times, the Times Literary Supplement and others. It's definitely worth reading, minor annoyances notwithstanding.
                          Ute-ī sunt fīmī differtī

                          It can't all be wedding cake.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                            I'm not shocked that no one has commented on my post, but I'll just point out that Borges addressed this angst a long time ago.

                            The abstract looks interesting Wuap - though I'm not sure that 'angst' factors in it for me.... it's really just a matter of interest. I'm a huge fan of the works of "Shakespeare" and I love a good historical mystery and this seems to have the makings of one.
                            Ute-ī sunt fīmī differtī

                            It can't all be wedding cake.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by oxcoug View Post
                              The abstract looks interesting Wuap - though I'm not sure that 'angst' factors in it for me.... it's really just a matter of interest. I'm a huge fan of the works of "Shakespeare" and I love a good historical mystery and this seems to have the makings of one.
                              My wife loved this book. I haven't read it yet.

                              "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
                              The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X