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  • Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
    I could go on and on. As a kid and as a leader. But, I'm not going to.
    Offenses aren't given, they are taken. --Jesus, Matthew 5.
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay
    Almost everything you post is snarky, smug, condescending, or just downright mean-spirited. --Jeffrey Lebowski

    Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump
    You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

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    • Originally posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
      Offenses aren't given, they are taken. --Jesus, Matthew 5.
      "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." -Wayne Gretzky
      - Michael Scott

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      • Originally posted by LVAllen View Post
        "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." -Wayne Gretzky
        - Michael Scott
        Gretzky also said if your friend does not have a hockey stick, you should give him (or her) your stick as well as your ice skates. Very progressive dude that Gretzky. As stated in the Bible, hockey completely *flipping* sucks but that's a debate for another day.
        You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay
        Almost everything you post is snarky, smug, condescending, or just downright mean-spirited. --Jeffrey Lebowski

        Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump
        You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

        Comment


        • Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
          you would've thought that we had interrupted a Queen recording session for "Bohemian Rhapsody." The RS Presidency (Plural) came in screaming, "NO NO NO NO NO" at us.
          And I trust you answered "Mama Mia, mama Mia, mama Mia let me go!"
          τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

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          • Followed by the bishop rushing in with, “Beelzebub has the devil put aside for me, for me, FOR MEEE!!!!”

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            • Originally posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
              Followed by the bishop rushing in with, “Beelzebub has the devil put aside for me, for me, FOR MEEE!!!!”
              This has the makings of a winning Roadshow.
              "You interns are like swallows. You shit all over my patients for six weeks and then fly off."

              "Don't be sorry, it's not your fault. It's my fault for overestimating your competence."

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              • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                Disagree. Teenagers don't need to be treated like children and entertained 24/7. Leadership training is super easy. You get the kids to plan the activities (focus on what they are interested in) and to follow through with assignments, etc. Blending some faith promoting experiences and service projects in the mix is also easy. None of that requires a corporate approach or a rigid structure and it is easily adapted to local circumstances.
                I agree with everything except the easy part. I love working with the youth, but they are complicated. Complicated hurts my brain.

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                • Originally posted by LiveCoug View Post
                  Father and son's campout last night at the local scout camp park...

                  Green Monstah, were you there?
                  I was, indeed. We should grab lunch one of these days.
                  Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

                  "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
                    Offenses aren't given, they are taken. --Jesus, Matthew 5.
                    So, the same guy who once scrambled his password and left, and now goes on a mean streak every few months is scolding me about the difference between taking and giving offense. I'm assuming that your inner dialogue is a millpond after reading this post then, through the power of Matthew 5--and valproate--of course.

                    Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                    Not sure what those two anecdotes have to do with the discussion. You seem to have an endless reservoir of cases where people have done dumb things to piss you off. That's a shame.
                    To your first sentence, Mormons want each program to fit the overall arc of molding us to be better X,Y, and Z. The rigidity of that mission can be suffocating and the proof is in the poor results produced outside of UT-AZ-ID.

                    To your second sentence, I do, because I didn't grow up Mormon and I can view it through a different lens. I don't have an endless reservoir of cases outside of Mormondom. It's unique to the obtuseness of bullying sanctimony. Don't worry though, it will fill no more. I went to church in Costa Rica. While I was gone, a member of the stake presidency came and told my ward the following (my wife, very upset, messaged me):

                    X implied in his talk today that if your political views differed from the church you couldn't answer the temple recommend question about affiliating with groups contrary to the church.

                    I approached him for clarification. He took 10,000 words to basically say what she said in a sentence. So, we're done. I no longer have the gumption to try and work for change from within. Yall have fun.
                    "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                      So, the same guy who once scrambled his password and left, and now goes on a mean streak every few months is scolding me about the difference between taking and giving offense. I'm assuming that your inner dialogue is a millpond after reading this post then, through the power of Matthew 5--and valproate--of course.



                      To your first sentence, Mormons want each program to fit the overall arc of molding us to be better X,Y, and Z. The rigidity of that mission can be suffocating and the proof is in the poor results produced outside of UT-AZ-ID.

                      To your second sentence, I do, because I didn't grow up Mormon and I can view it through a different lens. I don't have an endless reservoir of cases outside of Mormondom. It's unique to the obtuseness of bullying sanctimony. Don't worry though, it will fill no more. I went to church in Costa Rica. While I was gone, a member of the stake presidency came and told my ward the following (my wife, very upset, messaged me):

                      X implied in his talk today that if your political views differed from the church you couldn't answer the temple recommend question about affiliating with groups contrary to the church.

                      I approached him for clarification. He took 10,000 words to basically say what she said in a sentence. So, we're done. I no longer have the gumption to try and work for change from within. Yall have fun.
                      The context of the discussion is me suggesting that the objectives of a church youth program should include building faith and developing leadership skills in addition to fellowshipping and entertainment. Yes, I do think everything we do in the church should fit the overall arc of making us better disciples of Christ. If you think something as simple and innocuous as that is "why youth programs in the church suck" and evidence of "bullying sanctimony" then I think your cynicism/bitterness is at such a chronic level that you are going to see a demon behind every bush. I am sorry you feel that way, I really am. I think you have a lot to offer and the church will be diminished without you and your family. Best wishes.
                      "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                      "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                      "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                      Comment


                      • Rodney King was a prophet.

                        I did a temple recommend interview this past week, and said to the Bishop that my stance on the whole LGBT is softening as I get older as I come to a more complete understanding of people and the ways they navigate through life. I also see the church is moving their targets in lots of areas too. Am I supposed to move at the church's pace, or is it ok for me to scout ahead and see if the trail is safe? The Bishop laughed and said that he's in the same boat but wishes sometimes the church wasn't so slow in making course corrections.

                        In the long run Waup will be just fine... every body finds their own comfort level but the trick is to not be too comfortable that you cease to grow or become brusque to others. Inside the church is a lot of love and compassion, once you breakthrough the onion layers of anti-sin dogma and finger pointing of course.

                        When poet puts pen to paper imagination breathes life, finding hearth and home.
                        -Mid Summer's Night Dream

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                          How much experience do you have with youth programs from Protestant churches? There are some youth programs that have kids showing up more than their parents because they are so engaging.

                          Contrast that with our jobsworth leaders. I joined the Church when I was 17. About 6 months after my baptism, I had an interview with the bishop on a Wednesday night for something or other. I was playing basketball, and he came into the room, pulled me out, into his office, and proceeded to piously scold me about how it was disrespectful to not wear a shirt and tie to an interview with a priesthood leader.

                          Another time, the Relief Society decided to hold a meeting during youth activity night. We had something outside. When we were done, we came in and started playing basketball, and you would've thought that we had interrupted a Queen recording session for "Bohemian Rhapsody." The RS Presidency (Plural) came in screaming, "NO NO NO NO NO" at us. The bouncing balls were annoying them. There was no, "Hey guys, we're having a meeting."

                          I could go on and on. As a kid and as a leader. But, I'm not going to.
                          Am I the only one here who looked up the definition of jobsworth?
                          Great word, wuap .

                          I still learn things all the time on this board.
                          "More crazy people to Provo go than to any other town in the state."
                          -- Iron County Record. 23 August, 1912. (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...23/ed-1/seq-4/)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Solon View Post
                            Am I the only one here who looked up the definition of jobsworth?
                            Great word, wuap .

                            I still learn things all the time on this board.
                            I didn't look it up because learning here is beyond the scope of my membership.

                            When poet puts pen to paper imagination breathes life, finding hearth and home.
                            -Mid Summer's Night Dream

                            Comment


                            • Boy Scouts reviewing Ban on Gays ...

                              Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                              So, we're done. I no longer have the gumption to try and work for change from within. Yall have fun.
                              Wuap, I wish i shared a ward with you. I am sorry you have such conservative leaders than rub you the wrong way. I am sure the ward is losing more than you are. I hope you find your way back someday, because of the good influence you would have on the youth.
                              "Friendship is the grand fundamental principle of Mormonism" - Joseph Smith Jr.

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                              • Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                                So, we're done. I no longer have the gumption to try and work for change from within. Yall have fun.
                                This makes me sad. I get it, but it saddens me just the same.
                                Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

                                "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

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