President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[old_gregg]

unnerving if true

http://www.businessinsider.com/tille...-strike-2018-1

[Moliere]

unnerving if true

http://www.businessinsider.com/tille...-strike-2018-1

Anything written by this guy has to be credible:

[Jeff Lebowski]

unnerving if true

http://www.businessinsider.com/tille...-strike-2018-1

God help us survive a trump presidency.

[creekster]

God help us survive a trump presidency.

Agreed. We can use all the divine help we can get. That said, I am not sure this is quite the calamity that this author suggests.

First, it is not uncommon at all for national security teams to disagree internally over the best response to national security threats. In some ways, such a disagreement is a sign of a healthy dialog as opposed to group think, which might be one of the few positive signs we have seen coming out of the west wing. The primary difference here is that we learned about this internal dispute in real time instead of years or decades later, like when McNamara talked about the Cuban Missile Crisis. In fact, that we learned about this in such a high profile way (and this is not really news; they have been kicking around the "bloody nose attack" idea for months) makes it seem a little bit like there may be some other reason, which is point number two:

Second, this is very likely a leak intended to be consumed by NK. There would be two purposes for this. One is that it might push/encourage NK to continue and expand the recently opened dialog with SK and hopefully pull them back from the brink. As we recognized with the Soviets in the cold war, talk talk is better than war war when nukes are involved. Since we cannot, currently, talk talk, it is a good idea to encourage NK and SK to talk talk even if we have to look like we are crazy. The second possible purpose is that IF we were to attack we want them to understand that we do NOT intend to begin an all-out war. Or, if we do have that intent, we want them to at least wonder if we mean it to be all out so that we gain even a brief and small tactical advantage. Either way, this sort of loose talk at this particular time smells a lot like possible disinformation to me.

[old_gregg]

you’re right, this is another example of trump playing 4d chess and engaging in the reasoned give and take he has a history of displaying in public and private

[creekster]

you’re right, this is another example of trump playing 4d chess and engaging in the reasoned give and take he has a history of displaying in public and private

4d chess? Hardly. But I don't think this a breathless, stop-the-presses revelation showing that the fate of humanity could unravel in the next few minutes, either. The bloody nose attack has been discussed for months. The timing of this latest description., coming right after NK and SK start talks, seems unlikely to be purely coincidental to me. Unlike Trump, McMasters and Mattis and Tillerson are not idiots.

[old_gregg]

4d chess? Hardly. But I don't think this a breathless, stop-the-presses revelation showing that the fate of humanity could unravel in the next few minutes, either. The bloody nose attack has been discussed for months. The timing of this latest description., coming right after NK and SK start talks, seems unlikely to be purely coincidental to me. Unlike Trump, McMasters and Mattis and Tillerson are not idiots.

you keep saying “bloody nose attack” as if there’s a considered reason to attack an aggressive and maniac-led foreign power who can level the capital of a key ally where tens of thousands of u.s. troops are stationed before even breaking into their newly acquired stash of nuclear weapons (which by many accounts can reach the eastern seaboard)

[creekster]

you keep saying “bloody nose attack” as if there’s a considered reason to attack an aggressive and maniac-led foreign power who can level the capital of a key ally where tens of thousands of u.s. troops are stationed before even breaking into their newly acquired stash of nuclear weapons (which by many accounts can reach the eastern seaboard)

Its a legitimate strategy to consider. In determining how to deal with NK it must be considered, even if I personally don't see it as a viable option. Whether I do or do not think it is the right choice, however, doesn't mean much. In fact, and to my point, I dont think it is necessarily true that the trump administration thinks it is a serious option right now. We are very likely past the point where this approach can work. Regardless, it likely still has value as a threat to influence NK behavior, including pushing it farther in negotiations. I think it is likely that is why we are seeing this story now.

Or we could throw up our hands and hope NK treats us nicely.

[old_gregg]

Its a legitimate strategy to consider. In determining how to deal with NK it must be considered, even if I personally don't see it as a viable option. Whether I do or do not think it is the right choice, however, doesn't mean much. In fact, and to my point, I dont think it is necessarily true that the trump administration thinks it is a serious option right now. We are very likely past the point where this approach can work. Regardless, it likely still has value as a threat to influence NK behavior, including pushing it farther in negotiations. I think it is likely that is why we are seeing this story now.

Or we could throw up our hands and hope NK treats us nicely.

wait are you the “not a trump apologist” guy or not?

[creekster]

wait are you the “not a trump apologist” guy or not?

Call me what you want. DO you have anything of substance to add?

[old_gregg]

Call me what you want. DO you have anything of substance to add?

to be clear, your proposition here is that because it's a thing that could be done, even though it is clearly a very bad thing for all stakeholders (in the opinion of you and key cabinet personnel), it is not alarming that it is reportedly only not being done because of a couple of reasonable members of the cabinet? and djt, the extent of whose nk diplomacy to date has been lobbing insults at a volatile ruler sitting on a stash of nuclear weapons that could reach the eastern seaboard, composed while straining at whatever fast food toxic waste he shoved in his idiot face last, has some grand scheme by which he tricks kju that he's actually serious about moving all in with the lives of 10 million people to bring him to the table? the same djt whose negotiating strategy centers around the most absurd handshake of all time, and who pissed away any semblance of leverage and goodwill he had in legislating his mostly middle of the road agenda with a republican congress? yep, i'm sure he's got a handle on this one.

[creekster]

to be clear, your proposition here is that because it's a thing that could be done, even though it is clearly a very bad thing for all stakeholders (in the opinion of you and key cabinet personnel), it is not alarming that it is reportedly only not being done because of a couple of reasonable members of the cabinet? and djt, the extent of whose nk diplomacy to date has been lobbing insults at a volatile ruler sitting on a stash of nuclear weapons that could reach the eastern seaboard, composed while straining at whatever fast food toxic waste he shoved in his idiot face last, has some grand scheme by which he tricks kju that he's actually serious about moving all in with the lives of 10 million people to bring him to the table? the same djt whose negotiating strategy centers around the most absurd handshake of all time, and who pissed away any semblance of leverage and goodwill he had in legislating his mostly middle of the road agenda with a republican congress? yep, i'm sure he's got a handle on this one.

That wasn't very clear and no, that is not my position at all (too ornery?). The question is whether this linked article offered anything new or alarming. It was not new, and it was not really alarming, and I am guessing it was sourced by peopel who wanted ot put it out there for NK's consumption. I have said this at least three times now. Grand scheme? no idea. It seems unlikley. But I think he has some smart people at the table. Perhaps he listens to them once in a while.

As for me, I do not think an attack makes sense at all. I also said that before. I alos never said that I think Trump has it all in hand. You get pretty excited.

[Commando]

Anything written by this guy has to be credible:

Unnerving if that's his true appearance.

[BlueK]

Nice little dog and pony show at the WH today over immigration. Chances of any kind of bipartisan deal? Yeah, right.

[Commando]

Nice little dog and pony show at the WH today over immigration. Chances of any kind of bipartisan deal? Yeah, right.

Get rid of the stupid Stephen Miller dog whistles decrying "chain migration" and the visa lottery. Any attempt to shoehorn the moronic RAISE Act into a DACA deal should be summarily dismissed. Almost bears waiting until next year to pass comprehensive immigration with the DREAM Act included so that Republicans have no choice.