Guns

[Bo Diddley]

1) Buy the guns and magazines of the people who will sell them. Of the people who won't, let them be grandfathered in, but make their transfer fees if they want to sell them so ASTRONOMICALLY HIGH >$3,000 and increasing yearly with no exemption for inheritance they naturally come out of circulation. And, then any found unregistered are contraband, just like machine guns and "Any Other Weapons" have been under the Firearms Act since 1934, only up the penalties to include a loss of 2nd-Amendment Rights forever.

2) We create a true database that is funded by transfer fees and a tax on ammunition and that gets maintained properly. Also, if you break this law, I'm all for forfeiture. Like, if we find a gun in your home that you knowingly modified, after you're convicted, the People now own your property, real and personal, at that location. If you use an illegal weapon in a crime, the penalty needs to be so severe that there is no reason to use one. For example, if you rob someone with a firearm, a .9 won't get you 5, it'll get you 50.

I have to run to class, but these are some initial thoughts.

It sounds like with penalties, we're getting into the war on drugs outcome, with many people incarcerated for life.

[falafel]

It sounds like with penalties, we're getting into the war on drugs outcome, with many people incarcerated for life.

But there's a big difference between recreational drugs and using illegal firearms to commit a crime.

[Crockett]

Gun owners share their feelings about the AR-15 in the Trib:

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/02/...un-in-america/

This guy, whose name (Skousen) fits in with his views, drops some truth:



I can honestly say those threats don't even crack my top 10 worries about the future of America. I must be missing the signs.

Yeah a civil war could never happen here. And our country feels so unified these days.

One of the big problems with major gun control is that once the 2d amendment is gone I can't imagine it would ever make it back and the fundamental intent of the 2d amendment -- to resist tyranny -- is not a problem that would manifest overnight. It's something that could happen in 25-50 years though after the population becomes more dependent on the govt / servile and then it's too late. We pretend like nothing bad could ever happen here. History shows us that that is a foolish notion.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yeah a civil war could never happen here. And our country feels so unified these days.

One of the big problems with major gun control is that once the 2d amendment is gone I can't imagine it would ever make it back and the fundamental intent of the 2d amendment -- to resist tyranny -- is not a problem that would manifest overnight. It's something that could happen in 25-50 years though after the population becomes more dependent on the govt / servile and then it's too late. We pretend like nothing bad could ever happen here. History shows us that that is a foolish notion.

Says the guy who voted for Trump, without a hint of irony.

[Crockett]

Says the guy who voted for Trump, without a hint of irony.

Well, it was either Trump or Hillary. I chose wisely.

The left is the one that needs to look in the mirror about the divisions in this country. It's a big reason why he got elected -- political correctness, dividing people into victim groups, demonizing conservatives as evil / horrible people, the white privilege BS, etc. Imagine how much better this country would be right now if the left was introspective about why they lost instead of this fake Russia collusion / stolen election narrative and this year and half hissy fit.

And if you really do think Trump is Hitler and you want to resist, why in the world would you freely give up your power and rights to such a dangerous man?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Well, it was either Trump or Hillary. I chose wisely.

The left is the one that needs to look in the mirror about the divisions in this country. It's a big reason why he got elected -- political correctness, dividing people into victim groups, demonizing conservatives as evil / horrible people, the white privilege BS, etc. Imagine how much better this country would be right now if the left was introspective about why they lost instead of this fake Russia collusion / stolen election narrative and this year and half hissy fit.

And if you really do think Trump is Hitler and you want to resist, why in the world would you freely give up your power and rights to such a dangerous man?

I wouldn't. That is exactly why I didn't vote for him.

This isn't rocket science.

[Crockett]

I wouldn't. That is exactly why I didn't vote for him.

This isn't rocket science.

Right. It works both ways. So, no overturning the 2d amendment, agreed?

[Sleeping in EQ]

Well, it was either Trump or Hillary. I chose wisely.

The left is the one that needs to look in the mirror about the divisions in this country. It's a big reason why he got elected -- political correctness, dividing people into victim groups, demonizing conservatives as evil / horrible people, the white privilege BS, etc. Imagine how much better this country would be right now if the left was introspective about why they lost instead of this fake Russia collusion / stolen election narrative and this year and half hissy fit.

And if you really do think Trump is Hitler and you want to resist, why in the world would you freely give up your power and rights to such a dangerous man?

Both sides need to look in the mirror, because both sides are engaging in projection (in the psychoanalytic sense).

[BlueK]

Right. It works both ways. So, no overturning the 2d amendment, agreed?

Or ignoring the other 9 of the first ten.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Right. It works both ways. So, no overturning the 2d amendment, agreed?

No, but I would be fine with much greater restrictions than we have now. I think it is silly to think that a bunch of dudes with shotguns are going to stop a modern army. Or that such a thing is a realistic threat in today's world. There are lots of fully functioning modern democracies in the world involving citizens that aren't loaded with guns.

Things that are a much bigger threat to democracy:

1) A president who thinks we should ban specific religions from entering the country.

2) A presidential who condoned thugs beating up opponents at political rallies.

3) A president who demonizes a free press.

Am I describing Hitler or Trump? Hmmm....

[Eddie]

1) Buy the guns and magazines of the people who will sell them. Of the people who won't, let them be grandfathered in, but make their transfer fees if they want to sell them so ASTRONOMICALLY HIGH >$3,000 and increasing yearly with no exemption for inheritance they naturally come out of circulation. And, then any found unregistered are contraband, just like machine guns and "Any Other Weapons" have been under the Firearms Act since 1934, only up the penalties to include a loss of 2nd-Amendment Rights forever....

I have to run to class, but these are some initial thoughts.

So - the guy who stumbles across an old 20 round AR magazine in the bottom of a trunk that he and his siblings never went through after Dad died is now at risk of losing his 2nd amendment rights forever?

Backing up, just a little - as I looked through your classifications of firearms and who can own what - you really are focused on recreation and hunting and not so much on self-defense, which is kind of the purpose of the 2nd amendment, no?

I mean, I own guns. I like to shoot them. And my primary focus is on recreation. But the reason I have the right to own them has nothing to do with recreation and everything to do with "the security of a free state".

It seems like as soon as we decide that firearms are for recreation, and we limit firearms to those that can/would be used for recreation - eliminating those that would be more defensive in nature - aren't we moving to a place where firearms are like any other recreational tool, to be regulated like any other recreational tool?

The 2nd amendment may go away some day. Just seems like that day will come much quicker once it is determined that owning firearms is simply for recreation. And I think that any steps in that direction are going to be difficult to pass because of that.

[Uncle Ted]

No, but I would be fine with much greater restrictions than we have now. I think it is silly to think that a bunch of dudes with shotguns are going to stop a modern army. Or that such a thing is a realistic threat in today's world. There are lots of fully functioning modern democracies in the world involving citizens that aren't loaded with guns.

Things that are a much bigger threat to democracy:

1) A president who thinks we should ban specific religions from entering the country.

2) A presidential who condoned thugs beating up opponents at political rallies.

3) A president who demonizes a free press.

Am I describing Hitler or Trump? Hmmm....

What I don't understand is why y'all are wanting to give your guns to Hitler without any kind of hesitation... That didn't work out too well for some people the last time that happened but don't let me stop you, Dude.

[wuapinmon]

So - the guy who stumbles across an old 20 round AR magazine in the bottom of a trunk that he and his siblings never went through after Dad died is now at risk of losing his 2nd amendment rights forever?

Backing up, just a little - as I looked through your classifications of firearms and who can own what - you really are focused on recreation and hunting and not so much on self-defense, which is kind of the purpose of the 2nd amendment, no?

I mean, I own guns. I like to shoot them. And my primary focus is on recreation. But the reason I have the right to own them has nothing to do with recreation and everything to do with "the security of a free state".

It seems like as soon as we decide that firearms are for recreation, and we limit firearms to those that can/would be used for recreation - eliminating those that would be more defensive in nature - aren't we moving to a place where firearms are like any other recreational tool, to be regulated like any other recreational tool?

The 2nd amendment may go away some day. Just seems like that day will come much quicker once it is determined that owning firearms is simply for recreation. And I think that any steps in that direction are going to be difficult to pass because of that.

There are no longer hostile bands of pissed-off-that-you're-on-their-land American Indians to defend yourself from, nor invading French and Canadians. I don't think the security of a free state is needed in the hands of gun-owning citizens anymore. Our military can launch a missile from a submarine off the coast of North Carolina that someone in a cubicle in Las Vegas can steer via camera into your living room via an open window. They can put UAV's on you for months on end. Somehow, I don't think that any Wolverines are gonna uphold the Republic with some assault rifles and pluck. Fully 2/3rd's of Selective Service registrants are either too fat, not high-school graduates, or convicts.

As for the guy who stumbles across an old 20-round magazine, like the law now holds for finding an unregistered Thompson in your attic, it must be reported to the ATF immediately for destruction. The standard would have to be a willful attempt to hide such things.

[Jeff Lebowski]

What I don't understand is why y'all are wanting to give your guns to Hitler without any kind of hesitation... That didn't work out too well for some people the last time that happened but don't let me stop you, Dude.

Hey man, you are the Hitler ... err ... Trump supporter. Not me.

[Jeff Lebowski]

It's funny that people think "taking away guns" is how Hitler rose to power. Read a few damn history books, people.