Brother Brigham was one interesting cat

[Jeff Lebowski]

A few more tidbits on polygamy:

- 15 of 53 plural wives were married to other mean. Some were leaving broken marriages, but some remained with original husbands.
- Augusta Cobb was sealed to BY, but then had buyer remorse. She went to BY and said that wanted to be sealed to Jesus Christ instead. BY refused so she said that she would settle for JS. She finally relented and agreed to stay with BY so they were re-sealed. Afterwards, BYU tried to keep her away from JS, fearing JS would win her over.

[Donuthole]

Look, man, if you go more than 10-12 minutes, you're just gonna chafe or get your pubic hair all knotted together, unless you're all clean shaven like a child, or like some porn star from Kentucky with a bottle of Dr. Bronner's and a Braun Series 7 on his nightstand, which, in that case, you probably take so damn long because you slip out every 4 or 5 thrusts and have to start all over. Either that or you've got a mirror up in there, Narcissus. So, a half hour to an hour of foreplay is fine, but the actual act isn't a marathon...it's the titillating culmination of all the seductive artistry, technique, and imagination you put into the symphony you directed, finally allowing yourselves to combine into the spasming, rollicking, contracting waves of ecstatic, erotic, emotional, trusting oneness. There's no clock on that. Only life and love.

Even if this is some movie quote, it’s a very clackish post.

Please tell me this is a movie quote.

[Moliere]

This discussion on polygamy brings me back to my thought that the way we view sealings today is very different from how they were viewed in JS/BY time. Back then, people just wnated to be sealed to someone who was surely going to the CK in kind of a "if he goes then the sealing power will pull me in as well" attitude. I'm not discounting polygamy or polyandry as well since that existed in sexual and non-sexual relationships, but a sealing was more of an ordinance to get into the CK than it was a marriage. Today, we can't seem to separate the need to be sealed to enter the CK from the idea of an eternal family. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter to whom you are sealed as long as you are sealed. It's the ordinace that grants you access to the CK and once you are there I'm sure you can choose to live with whomever you want to live with....or so it seemed to be preached that way back in the day.

[Jeff Lebowski]

This discussion on polygamy brings me back to my thought that the way we view sealings today is very different from how they were viewed in JS/BY time. Back then, people just wnated to be sealed to someone who was surely going to the CK in kind of a "if he goes then the sealing power will pull me in as well" attitude. I'm not discounting polygamy or polyandry as well since that existed in sexual and non-sexual relationships, but a sealing was more of an ordinance to get into the CK than it was a marriage. Today, we can't seem to separate the need to be sealed to enter the CK from the idea of an eternal family. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter to whom you are sealed as long as you are sealed. It's the ordinace that grants you access to the CK and once you are there I'm sure you can choose to live with whomever you want to live with....or so it seemed to be preached that way back in the day.

Exactly. Strange times.

[Uncle Ted]

This discussion on polygamy brings me back to my thought that the way we view sealings today is very different from how they were viewed in JS/BY time. Back then, people just wnated to be sealed to someone who was surely going to the CK in kind of a "if he goes then the sealing power will pull me in as well" attitude. I'm not discounting polygamy or polyandry as well since that existed in sexual and non-sexual relationships, but a sealing was more of an ordinance to get into the CK than it was a marriage. Today, we can't seem to separate the need to be sealed to enter the CK from the idea of an eternal family. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter to whom you are sealed as long as you are sealed. It's the ordinace that grants you access to the CK and once you are there I'm sure you can choose to live with whomever you want to live with....or so it seemed to be preached that way back in the day.

So was the "promise of the CK" line back in BY's day like when RM's use to tell girls they had a revelation about them and they were to get married? I am told that gullible women fell for that one too.

[YOhio]

Before making fun of me... come up with a plausible explanation on your own on regarding the doctrine of polygamy.

This sure is tough, but I’ll give it a shot. Joseph Smith wanted to have sex with more than one woman but didn’t want to undermine his position of power as a religious leader. So he made up a story about God sending an angel with a sword that forced him to marry another woman. Other men saw how awesome it would be to get with other women so they supported the new approach.

Wacky theory, I know. But hey you gotta be creative with these kinds explanations!

[clackamascoug]

This sure is tough, but I’ll give it a shot. Joseph Smith wanted to have sex with more than one woman but didn’t want to undermine his position of power as a religious leader. So he made up a story about God sending an angel with a sword that forced him to marry another woman. Other men saw how awesome it would be to get with other women so they supported the new approach.

Wacky theory, I know. But hey you gotta be creative with these kinds explanations!

OK... can the church be true with a Prophet going around lying (like you suggested) and seducing women including under age girls? Can both things exist at the same time?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Sealing children:

- Sealing of family members didn't start until after they had been sealing couples for a while
- It was very common to seal people as children who were no relation. "Adoptive sealings" As was the case with plural marriage, everyone wanted to get sealed to a church leader
- Adoptive children were sealed to the first wife only. I believe this was true for children of plural wives too. Sealed to the alpha wife.
- The parents of one of BY's plural wives were sealed to BY as his adoptive children.
- A husband and wife were sealed to BY as children and then later, he married the wife -- his adopted daughter.

As crazy as it was, this flurry of sealing and adoption and temple work right before leaving Nauvoo tended to create some unity and loyalty among the Saints.

[Northwestcoug]

OK... can the church be true with a Prophet going around lying (like you suggested) and seducing women including under age girls? Can both things exist at the same time?

Dude, oh say what is truth?

For someone who believes in multiple dimensions to sort out inconsistencies with the church, truth can't be anywhere near the black and white construct that most members believe in, right?

[Moliere]

OK... can the church be true with a Prophet going around lying (like you suggested) and seducing women including under age girls? Can both things exist at the same time?

Apparently so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Uncle Ted]

Sealing children:

- Sealing of family members didn't start until after they had been sealing couples for a while
- It was very common to seal people as children who were no relation. "Adoptive sealings" As was the case with plural marriage, everyone wanted to get sealed to a church leader
- Adoptive children were sealed to the first wife only. I believe this was true for children of plural wives too. Sealed to the alpha wife.
- The parents of one of BY's plural wives were sealed to BY as his adoptive children.
- A husband and wife were sealed to BY as children and then later, he married the wife -- his adopted daughter.

As crazy as it was, this flurry of sealing and adoption and temple work right before leaving Nauvoo tended to create some unity and loyalty among the Saints.

What about that "law of adoption" thing Bro. Brigham was doing? That was a lot easier than trying to figure out how you are connected to Abraham, Adam/Father, etc. They should bring that back. That seemed like a good thing to me. This genealogy stuff is too much work. It would be easier if President Nelson or someone with a great "blood of Israel" just adopted me.

[tooblue]

Dude, oh say what is truth?

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/presentism/#MotiPres

Presentism is the view that only present things exist (Hinchliff 1996: 123; Crisp 2004: 15; Markosian 2004: 47–48). So understood, presentism is an ontological doctrine; it’s a view about what exists (what there is), absolutely and unrestrictedly.

https://www.historians.org/publicati...nst-presentism

Presentism, at its worst, encourages a kind of moral complacency and self-congratulation. Interpreting the past in terms of present concerns usually leads us to find ourselves morally superior; the Greeks had slavery, even David Hume was a racist, and European women endorsed imperial ventures. Our forbears constantly fail to measure up to our present-day standards. This is not to say that any of these findings are irrelevant or that we should endorse an entirely relativist point of view. It is to say that we must question the stance of temporal superiority that is implicit in the Western (and now probably worldwide) historical discipline. In some ways, now that we have become very sensitive about Western interpretations of the non-Western past, this temporal feeling of superiority applies more to the Western past than it does to the non-Western one. We more easily accept the existence and tolerate the moral ambiguities of eunuchs and harems, for example, than of witches. Because they found a place in a non-Western society, eunuchs and harems seem strange to us but they do not reflect badly on our own past. Witches, in contrast, seem to challenge the very basis of modern historical understanding and have therefore provoked immense controversy as well as many fine historical studies.

[YOhio]

OK... can the church be true with a Prophet going around lying (like you suggested) and seducing women including under age girls? Can both things exist at the same time?

Can God work through imperfect vessels to forward his work? If scripture is to be believed, then outside of Christ that is exclusively the case. He worked through liars, adulterers and murderers to forward his work. So what level of imperfection can one accept for one of God’s prophets? Is it okay that Nephi murdered a defenseless drunk, stole valuable artifacts, and kidnapped another man? Moses murdered a slavedriver, but is that what you think of when you consider him a prophet? Do you think of Israel as the man who lied and tricked his blind father into giving him a birthright he didn’t deserve? Or that Abraham slept with a slave and banished her and their offspring to the wilderness?

If Joseph Smith and other prophets, in their wretched human state, were good enough for the Lord then it provides comfort in knowing that I am as well.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Can God work through imperfect vessels to forward his work? If scripture is to be believed, then outside of Christ that is exclusively the case. He worked through liars, adulterers and murderers to forward his work. So what level of imperfection can one accept for one of God’s prophets? Is it okay that Nephi murdered a defenseless drunk, stole valuable artifacts, and kidnapped another man? Moses murdered a slavedriver, but is that what you think of when you consider him a prophet? Do you think of Israel as the man who lied and tricked his blind father into giving him a birthright he didn’t deserve? Or that Abraham slept with a slave and banished her and their offspring to the wilderness?

If Joseph Smith and other prophets, in their wretched human state, were good enough for the Lord then it provides comfort in knowing that I am as well.

[Northwestcoug]

Can God work through imperfect vessels to forward his work? If scripture is to be believed, then outside of Christ that is exclusively the case. He worked through liars, adulterers and murderers to forward his work. So what level of imperfection can one accept for one of God’s prophets? Is it okay that Nephi murdered a defenseless drunk, stole valuable artifacts, and kidnapped another man? Moses murdered a slavedriver, but is that what you think of when you consider him a prophet? Do you think of Israel as the man who lied and tricked his blind father into giving him a birthright he didn’t deserve? Or that Abraham slept with a slave and banished her and their offspring to the wilderness?

If Joseph Smith and other prophets, in their wretched human state, were good enough for the Lord then it provides comfort in knowing that I am as well.

Wow, when you put it that way I'm not sure I want to follow those guys!