Men's Volleyball 2019

[pelagius]

I was going back and forth between hoops and volleyball last night, but did I see Gardini hitting from the outside, or is that just him playing out of system?

That was just a typo on K-dog's part. Gardini is playing OH.

[Topper]

That was just a typo on K-dog's part. Gardini is playing OH.

Correct because you understand volleyball, but is out of system simply a term that the pass to the setter is not where the setter can set up the offensive player? I've struggled understanding what is considered out of system and in system. I know it's related to passing.

[pelagius]

Correct because you understand volleyball, but is out of system simply a term that the pass to the setter is not where the setter can set up the offensive player? I've struggled understanding what is considered out of system and in system. I know it's related to passing.

I think that's basically right, although I would probably define it in terms of offensive options lost:

In system: pass is good enough that the setter can set any of his offensive options. In the men's game that typically is 4: middle quick, front row OH hitter on the left, opposite hitter on the right either in the front or behind the 3M line (behind the 3 meter line it's often called a D-set or D-ball), or the BIC.

Out of system: pass results in setter losing at least some offensive options. If the pass pulls the setter away from his normal spot it's really easy to lose the middle quick and the BIC. Worst case: only one feasible offensive option for the setter.

[pelagius]

So my main thought from the match is that this team has a pretty high ceiling. I think it's quite a bit higher than last year's ceiling. On the other hand, I think there is quite a bit of uncertainty about whether it comes together. Reasons to think the ceiling is higher:

1. Garcia-Fernandez looks like he has increased his shot selection. Last year he was pretty much an angle and hard angle hitter. Last night I saw a lot more variety than that. In particular, he was patient and adjusted his swing to the block he faced. Hopefully, he can consistently do that.

2. I thought Stanley's connection with the pin hitters was good last night. I just didn't think Durkin set Garcia-Fernandez very well last year, but I thought Stanley looked good to all the pins.

3. Stanley will go for sets that I think Durkin didn't even try (or rarely tried). For example, several times last night Stanley made really difficult back sets across the court to GGF to avoid setting the left pin and facing a triple block.

4. Gardini just has more upside the Brenden Sander (and I don't mean this as a knock on Brenden Sander).

5. More serving potential. This one is a bit more marginal.


Reasons to be pessimistic about getting close to their ceiling:

1. Libero lets them down. I thought it was a poor match for Hendrickson. Too many over passes last night. Ohio State is a really aggressive serving team and they had already played a couple of previous matches so that may explain some of what happened.

2. Passing lets them down in general.

3. The connection between Stanley and the middles is behind where you would want it to be. I am the least worried about this ... I think it will come around.

[KillerDog]

That was just a typo on K-dog's part. Gardini is playing OH.

True. Thanks.

[KillerDog]

So my main thought from the match is that this team has a pretty high ceiling. I think it's quite a bit higher than last year's ceiling. On the other hand, I think there is quite a bit of uncertainty about whether it comes together. Reasons to think the ceiling is higher:

1. Garcia-Fernandez looks like he has increased his shot selection. Last year he was pretty much an angle and hard angle hitter. Last night I saw a lot more variety than that. In particular, he was patient and adjusted his swing to the block he faced. Hopefully, he can consistently do that.

2. I thought Stanley's connection with the pin hitters was good last night. I just didn't think Durkin set Garcia-Fernandez very well last year, but I thought Stanley looked good to all the pins.

3. Stanley will go for sets that I think Durkin didn't even try (or rarely tried). For example, several times last night Stanley made really difficult back sets across the court to GGF to avoid setting the left pin and facing a triple block.

4. Gardini just has more upside the Brenden Sander (and I don't mean this as a knock on Brenden Sander).

5. More serving potential. This one is a bit more marginal.


Reasons to be pessimistic about getting close to their ceiling:

1. Libero lets them down. I thought it was a poor match for Hendrickson. Too many over passes last night. Ohio State is a really aggressive serving team and they had already played a couple of previous matches so that may explain some of what happened.

2. Passing lets them down in general.

3. The connection between Stanley and the middles is behind where you would want it to be. I am the least worried about this ... I think it will come around.

I like your analysis. I really think we can be better on the outside and on the backside than we were last year. I think our serving game is as good or a bit better than last year. I’m worried because I think a Jaylen Reyes level Libero takes us to a National Championship but I don’t think we have one on this team. If we were able to get in system against good but not elite serving we would be amazing because of the size and skill of our MB1, OH1, and OPP. Instead, we will end up looking like last year and hoping our elite pin hitters can carry us against 2 and 3 blockers.

[Topper]

I like your analysis. I really think we can be better on the outside and on the backside than we were last year. I think our serving game is as good or a bit better than last year. I’m worried because I think a Jaylen Reyes level Libero takes us to a National Championship but I don’t think we have one on this team. If we were able to get in system against good but not elite serving we would be amazing because of the size and skill of our MB1, OH1, and OPP. Instead, we will end up looking like last year and hoping our elite pin hitters can carry us against 2 and 3 blockers.

How bad is our libero?

[KillerDog]

How bad is our libero?

I think an above average libero should get you into your offensive system while passing more than his 1/3 of the court in order to be a good libero. Otherwise, he’s just another undersized outside hitter. When they are all-American level, they can pass more than their 1/3 and dig balls to put you into system. Think about Mary Lake or Brad Goldston or Fernando Pessoa early in his career. Reyes wasn’t able to pass 50% of the court but he took more than his 1/3. He could also dig a ball into system consistently. Our current liberos can only pass their 1/3 and their digs only give us one or two options in transition. They aren’t bad but they aren’t an advantage. They are just little outsides. That said, our coach was a very good libero so maybe he can bring someone along. I thought Jon Stanley might be a libero type because he clearly isn’t a physical specimen. We shall see.

I did like our starter sacrificing his mouth onto the stanchion in the game against OSU. Gutsy run.

[pelagius]

I thought Jon Stanley might be a libero type because he clearly isn’t a physical specimen. We shall see.

That's got to be what they are thinking in term of his development? I watched his recruiting video, and clearly he was a very good high school player. But, at his size, you have to be super explosive to play for a team like BYU. To me he looks like about the same height as Storm. Storm's jumping ability is incredible, and Fa'alago has still taken over the position (although Storm is coming back from some sort of injury so I imagine we will see him at least some when he's 100%).

[pelagius]

Just a few observations from the match:

1. Gardini is a super fun player to watch. He just does so many things really well. I'm probably overly impressed, but outside of DeFalco I'm not sure there is anyone better at OH than him in the NCAA at the moment (maybe someone like Hawaii's Steijn Van Tilburg or Pepperdine's Wieczorek). In terms of fun players to watch I put him up there with Patch, Micah Ma'a (UCLA), and Tui Tuileta (former Hawaii libero).

2. I found it interesting that Akana got time at OH2. He's the first of the Non-Gardini Freshman to get time (Oberender came in a little later at MB). He did have a nice block and kill in the third set. I think most volleyball people would have ranked Baldwin as the bigger/more promising recruit (but I could be wrong about this). Impressive for Akana.

[Topper]

Just a few observations from the match:

1. Gardini is a super fun player to watch. He just does so many things really well. I'm probably overly impressed, but outside of DeFalco I'm not sure there is anyone better at OH than him in the NCAA at the moment (maybe someone like Hawaii's Steijn Van Tilburg or Pepperdine's Wieczorek). In terms of fun players to watch I put him up there with Patch, Micah Ma'a (UCLA), and Tui Tuileta (former Hawaii libero).

2. I found it interesting that Akana got time at OH2. He's the first of the Non-Gardini Freshman to get time (Oberender came in a little later at MB). He did have a nice block and kill in the third set. I think most volleyball people would have ranked Baldwin as the bigger/more promising recruit (but I could be wrong about this). Impressive for Akana.

Is Baldwin an OH or MB?

[pelagius]

Is Baldwin an OH or MB?

an OH

[pelagius]

Is Baldwin an OH or MB?

I should note that both Akana and Baldwin were top 50 recruits (what's called the Fab 50, https://volleyballmag.com/boys-fab-50-060818/ ). So it's not like Akana was some obscure recruit. That said, this isn't like other sports. BYU getting a top 50 is not a big deal. The vast majority of BYU's domestic recruits were top 50 recruits or were left off because volleyball is a fringe sport and the people compiling these things don't have that strong of incentives to get these things right (... Storm was left of in 2014 even though he played for like the national under 19 team).

[Topper]

I should note that both Akana and Baldwin were top 50 recruits (what's called the Fab 50, https://volleyballmag.com/boys-fab-50-060818/ ). So it's not like Akana was some obscure recruit. That said, this isn't like other sports. BYU getting a top 50 is not a big deal. The vast majority of BYU's domestic recruits were top 50 recruits or were left off because volleyball is a fringe sport and the people compiling these things don't have that strong of incentives to get these things right (... Storm was left of in 2014 even though he played for like the national under 19 team).

I wondered about that. It's not like football where millions of fans are following recruits from eighth grade on, watching rankings and ratings rise and fall. Wouldn't making a national team be more significant than one of those rankings, other than national player of the year?

[pelagius]

I wondered about that. It's not like football where millions of fans are following recruits from eighth grade on, watching rankings and ratings rise and fall. Wouldn't making a national team be more significant than one of those rankings, other than national player of the year?

Mostly it just creates more noise than probably other situations. But there are less high school players total, so that probably reduces noise. It's still correlated with player success at the next level. For example, here are the Fab 50 recruits in BYU's starting lineup:

Garcia-Fernandez
Fa'alago
Hendrickson
Stanley

Not Fab 50:
Ferreira
Miki
Gardini

All the ones not ranked, were international players outside of the ranking system. So it's not like it's useless.