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Originally posted by il Padrino Ute View Post
I'm not complaining mind you, but I find that dichotomy a little strange.Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”
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Originally posted by Color Me Badd Fan View PostEven people like me who aren't fans of Obama have to admit that he at least seems to enjoy kicking Al Qaeda's ass and he doesn't seem to care where it happens either. The interesting thing about it is that Obama doesn't seem to have an issue hunting these guys down and killing them in countries that either we haven't yet formally invaded or haven't gotten their permission to enter, but finding these guys and waterboarding them for information is somehow way out of bounds.
I'm not complaining mind you, but I find that dichotomy a little strange.Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!
For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.
Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."
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Originally posted by RobinFinderson View PostWhich now include killing American civilians without a trial.Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.
"The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!
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Originally posted by Color Me Badd Fan View PostEven people like me who aren't fans of Obama have to admit that he at least seems to enjoy kicking Al Qaeda's ass and he doesn't seem to care where it happens either. The interesting thing about it is that Obama doesn't seem to have an issue hunting these guys down and killing them in countries that either we haven't yet formally invaded or haven't gotten their permission to enter, but finding these guys and waterboarding them for information is somehow way out of bounds.
I'm not complaining mind you, but I find that dichotomy a little strange.
Oh man it's a totally indefensible disconnect in the "morality" of the left -
Atomizing a dude w/ a hellfire missile or shooting him in the face in front of his kids = OK.
Enhanced interrogation techniques that we use in training our own soldiers and are known to have no lasting physical effects = not only not OK, but a total betrayal of everything the West stands for! (the latter being the actual sort of rhetoric that was used about waterboarding).
I get being opposed to both waterboarding / EITs and also being opposed to drone attacks. There is simply no defensible consistency between opposing targeted EITs for the extraction of life-saving information from known terrorists but supporting drone attacks which routinely inflict civilian casualties or get the wrong guys all together.Ute-ī sunt fīmī differtī
It can't all be wedding cake.
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Originally posted by oxcoug View PostOh man it's a totally indefensible disconnect in the "morality" of the left -
Atomizing a dude w/ a hellfire missile or shooting him in the face in front of his kids = OK.
Enhanced interrogation techniques that we use in training our own soldiers and are known to have no lasting physical effects = not only not OK, but a total betrayal of everything the West stands for! (the latter being the actual sort of rhetoric that was used about waterboarding).
I get being opposed to both waterboarding / EITs and also being opposed to drone attacks. There is simply no defensible consistency between opposing targeted EITs for the extraction of life-saving information from known terrorists but supporting drone attacks which routinely inflict civilian casualties or get the wrong guys all together.
I'm not saying that I buy what we are doing, I'm just saying that there is logic in the point of view.
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Originally posted by falafel View PostWhat does the fact that they're american citizens have to do with it? These guys are actively at war with America.
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Originally posted by RobinFinderson View PostHave you read about what they haves actually done? Both of them are primarily responsible for inspiring violent acts. This makes them truly evil people, but there is no way that a US criminal court would give them a death sentence. They may be serious criminals, but I haven't read a shred of evidence that they were anything more than cheerleaders for violent jihad. So the government has crossed a line here.
It all depends on how you define war and how you define opposing combatants.PLesa excuse the tpyos.
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Originally posted by RobinFinderson View PostHave you read about what they haves actually done? Both of them are primarily responsible for inspiring violent acts. This makes them truly evil people, but there is no way that a US criminal court would give them a death sentence. They may be serious criminals, but I haven't read a shred of evidence that they were anything more than cheerleaders for violent jihad. So the government has crossed a line here.
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Originally posted by creekster View PostWhat line is that? Is it a constitutional line? a statute? A moral line? What line, exactly, do you mean?
It all depends on how you define war and how you define opposing combatants.
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Originally posted by RobinFinderson View PostIt is a line where the US government seeks out, targets and kills specific citizens for their speech without the benefit of a trial to determine the extent to which the speech was criminal.PLesa excuse the tpyos.
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Originally posted by creekster View PostWell if you eliminate all other factors involved except those you state, you might be correct. But as it is much more complex than your oversimplified description, and as his culpable behavior extends much farther, you are wildly incorrect. All just IMO, of course.
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Originally posted by RobinFinderson View PostI really didn't know much about them, except that I have heard their names in the news. So I've tried to read about them since they were killed, and I haven't seen any evidence of material support. They were definitely in contact with terrorists, and were encouraging terrorist behavior. I'm not saying that these are innocent people, and I'm not upset with their getting whacked. They had it coming. But it seems like government overreach, and that should be a cause of concern.Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.
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