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  • Why cut taxes?

    OK, a snoozer of a thread, but the proposed tax cuts are bothering me...

    In part, I think, to move attention away from Russia, Trump and the GOP are really pushing for tax reform, which from what I’ve seen isn’t really reform, but simply tax cuts. In the abstract, I’d love to pay less in taxes, but I am seriously concerned about what we as a nation are leaving behind for our kids. Following WWII, the national debt as a percentage of GDP declined steadily until Reagan, when it started to climb again. That percentage peaked early in Clinton’s presidency and then began to decline again until 9/11 and it’s been rising ever since, although it dropped slightly at the end of Obama’s reign.

    Is it believed that lowering taxes will actually increase revenue because of an expanding economy? I’ve grown increasingly skeptical of that theory (why not cut taxes to 0.1% then and really watch the economy take off?). Or is it accepted that the debt will grow substantially but it’s no big deal?

    I assume the conservative ideal is reducing the debt by reducing government expenditures AND reducing taxes, but given that discretionary government spending is an increasingly small part of government outlays, the prospect of significantly lower government spending seems pretty dim.

    Anyway, given the skyrocketing debt/GDP ratio, tell me why cutting taxes is a good idea.

    Hey, wake up!

  • #2
    I don't get it either. Pandering to your base?
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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    • #3
      Pandering to your donors?

      Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
      "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
      - Goatnapper'96

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Pelado View Post
        Pandering to your donors?

        Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
        yeah, much closer to this.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
          OK, a snoozer of a thread, but the proposed tax cuts are bothering me...

          In part, I think, to move attention away from Russia, Trump and the GOP are really pushing for tax reform, which from what I’ve seen isn’t really reform, but simply tax cuts. In the abstract, I’d love to pay less in taxes, but I am seriously concerned about what we as a nation are leaving behind for our kids. Following WWII, the national debt as a percentage of GDP declined steadily until Reagan, when it started to climb again. That percentage peaked early in Clinton’s presidency and then began to decline again until 9/11 and it’s been rising ever since, although it dropped slightly at the end of Obama’s reign.

          Is it believed that lowering taxes will actually increase revenue because of an expanding economy? I’ve grown increasingly skeptical of that theory (why not cut taxes to 0.1% then and really watch the economy take off?). Or is it accepted that the debt will grow substantially but it’s no big deal?

          I assume the conservative ideal is reducing the debt by reducing government expenditures AND reducing taxes, but given that discretionary government spending is an increasingly small part of government outlays, the prospect of significantly lower government spending seems pretty dim.

          Anyway, given the skyrocketing debt/GDP ratio, tell me why cutting taxes is a good idea.

          Hey, wake up!
          lol at the bolded part. Otherwise I agree with your post.
          Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

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          • #6
            Originally posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
            Is it believed that lowering taxes will actually increase revenue because of an expanding economy? I’ve grown increasingly skeptical of that theory (why not cut taxes to 0.1% then and really watch the economy take off?). Or is it accepted that the debt will grow substantially but it’s no big deal?
            Yeah, the government should just raise all the tax brackets by 25 or more percent instead since it has little or no impact on the economy. Everyone in congress could use a raise.

            The high debt is only a problem if our creditors don't like the idea that we are printing money to repay them... So far they could give a rat's ass where the money is coming from.
            "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
            "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
            "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
            GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
              lol at the bolded part. Otherwise I agree with your post.
              I accept your skepticism about the bolded part, but I'm not sure it's worthy of an lol. Watching the news for an hour this morning, CNN and MSNBC were all about the indictments; Fox focused on "tax reform" and Sen. Menendez's trial (a Democratic senator). I'd guess Fox and Hannity would laugh, too, at my suggestion Trump would like to change the subject.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
                I accept your skepticism about the bolded part, but I'm not sure it's worthy of an lol. Watching the news for an hour this morning, CNN and MSNBC were all about the indictments; Fox focused on "tax reform" and Sen. Menendez's trial (a Democratic senator). I'd guess Fox and Hannity would laugh, too, at my suggestion Trump would like to change the subject.
                FOX is ridiculous, but is an essential piece to keeping Trump's base together.
                Last edited by BlueK; 10-30-2017, 10:50 AM.

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                • #9
                  I would like to see them raise taxes. The market is too high and we need to get back to 2% gdp instead of 3%.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by byu71 View Post
                    I would like to see them raise taxes. The market is too high and we need to get back to 2% gdp instead of 3%.
                    If you want the market to come down just wait for Trump to pull us out of NAFTA. Every time that subject comes up the market hiccups. And if we did actually trash NAFTA I think we'll have even bigger problems in the economy than the stock market going down, although that would certainly be a part of it.
                    Last edited by BlueK; 10-30-2017, 10:50 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by byu71 View Post
                      I would like to see them raise taxes. The market is too high and we need to get back to 2% gdp instead of 3%.
                      And they need to keep the corporate tax rate high so Apple isn't tempted to bring any of that money back onshore to get taxed... I don't want to see my AAPL takes a hit in value when they announce building another $5b space ship. Look at what the last one did to the neighborhood!
                      "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                      "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                      "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                      GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
                        I accept your skepticism about the bolded part, but I'm not sure it's worthy of an lol. Watching the news for an hour this morning, CNN and MSNBC were all about the indictments; Fox focused on "tax reform" and Sen. Menendez's trial (a Democratic senator). I'd guess Fox and Hannity would laugh, too, at my suggestion Trump would like to change the subject.
                        The news during the past week was that Mueller had shifted his focus to the Podesta Group; in particular, the relationship between the Manafort and the Podesta Group. The indictments focus basically on tax evasion and violations of the Foreign Agent Registrations Act that occurred long before he was the manager of Trump's campaign. A huge part of the indictment deals with wire transfers that were not properly disclosed, either under the FARA or for tax purposes. The indictments fall in line with the news regarding the Podesta Group.

                        http://thehill.com/opinion/white-hou...ith-conspiracy

                        What's more likely -- that Trump hired Manafort because of his experience in getting Reagan over the finish line re delegates the last time there was a close primary race in the GOP, or because of Manafort's Russian connections?

                        I think it would much more correct to say the GOP is trying to engage in tax reform because Trump's approval is in the shitter because he acts like an idiot and has an insulting demeanor and personality and he threatens to take the GOP Congress down with him next year unless they have a domestic policy win.
                        Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Uncle Ted View Post
                          Yeah, the government should just raise all the tax brackets by 25 or more percent instead since it has little or no impact on the economy.
                          Obviously the tax rate can affect the growth rate, but the more the tax rate is reduced, the less impact it will have on growth. And if those tax rates don't align with spending the debt/deficit can have a greater impact on growth than the tax cut. Cutting spending and services can also have a negative effect on growth.

                          I too would like to see real tax reform. I'm less concerned about a tax cut and am concerned about the debt.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
                            Is it believed that lowering taxes will actually increase revenue because of an expanding economy? I’ve grown increasingly skeptical of that theory (why not cut taxes to 0.1% then and really watch the economy take off?). Or is it accepted that the debt will grow substantially but it’s no big deal?
                            Back when I was working with a painting crew right after graduating, the favorite radio program was Limbaugh. I cannot tell you how many times we heard about when JFK cut taxes and the economy took off. I don't know any details, much less if that's even true. But it became accepted wisdom. Every conservative worker on the crew believed it, and it was a favorite gotcha line when arguing with the more liberal worker.
                            "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
                            "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
                            - SeattleUte

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                            • #15
                              i think they should do the thing where rich people pay more taxes.

                              apologies to welders, PAC, lebowski and the like.
                              I'm like LeBron James.
                              -mpfunk

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