"Hold my root beer" - the Russell M. Nelson thread

[MartyFunkhouser]

I agree that the LDS church has no desire to see gay people changed by hooking up electrodes to their genitals and administering shocks. They realized that didn't work and moved on.

I don't think a therapist should be convincing a bisexual person to be straight. No therapy is going to be effective doing that. You aren't going to change someone's orientation. I think the rule as written absolutely allows a therapist to help a bisexual person come to terms with and accept their orientation. It could even allow for the therapist to assist the person with resolving conflicts between sexuality and religion, including focusing on opposite sex relationships. What it doesn't allow a therapist to do is to help the minor become straight or push the person to be one sexuality or the other. I think a therapist that wants to convince a kid that he or she is straight and can ignore bisexuality is engaging in abusive therapeutic practices.

I think though the church's opposition is more directed to the gender identify portion of this rule. I think you take that out and the church is completely supportive of the rule.

By the way, go fuck yourself Gayle Ruzicka.

[MartyFunkhouser]

How long did funk's "I will no longer make posts about the church" vow last? 2 days?

Yeah sorry, this is a notable exception, because I think people need to know that this opposition is out there. I'm not gonna comment past my recent post on this one. I would be interested in your thoughts on this opposition as someone who is both active LDS and supportive of the LGBTQ community.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yeah sorry, this is a notable exception, because I think people need to know that this opposition is out there. I'm not gonna comment past my recent post on this one. I will not disturb your echo chamber further.

Knock it off. I never asked you to stop posting.

[MartyFunkhouser]

Knock it off. I never asked you to stop posting.

The echo chamber comment was unfair and I removed it. You are no El Jefe and this is no cougarboard.

[Eddie]

I wouldn't be surprised if the concerns I expressed are still the concerns the LDS church has - in spite of your belief that it shouldn't be.

I'd prefer Mrs. Ruzika just retire from political action activities. If she replaces them with your suggestion - or something else - is entirely up to her.

[MartyFunkhouser]

I wouldn't be surprised if the concerns I expressed are still the concerns the LDS church has - in spite of your belief that it shouldn't be.

I'd prefer Mrs. Ruzika just retire from political action activities. If she replaces them with your suggestion - or something else - is entirely up to her.

I think everyone on here can agree a world without Mrs. Ruzika's political action activities is a better world.

[Jeff Lebowski]

The echo chamber comment was unfair and I removed it. You are no El Jefe and this is no cougarboard.

I shouldn't have teased you for breaking your vow. You post on whatever topic you like.

[myboynoah]

I shouldn't have teased you for breaking your vow. You post on whatever topic you like.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[falafel]

I shouldn't have teased you for breaking your vow. You post on whatever topic you like.

Hey, we had a brokered deal here! Maybe I'll go back on my vow too. [emoji36]

[All-American]

Yeah sorry, this is a notable exception, because I think people need to know that this opposition is out there. I'm not gonna comment past my recent post on this one. I would be interested in your thoughts on this opposition as someone who is both active LDS and supportive of the LGBTQ community.

Thanks for clarifying. I was definitely wondering how you would come out on this issue.

[Solon]

I don't want anyone to get conversion-therapy, but the idea of government non-experts legislating medical / psychological treatment is very troubling to me.

My inexpert opinion is that conversion therapy is a terrible thing with terrible outcomes, but this type of debate needs to be left to the scientists and professionals and experts - not legislators. The professional bodies that license and regulate and certify counseling/therapy/etc. should be in charge here.

The LDS church and Gayle R. may be using this argument for religious purposes rather than scientific ones, but I think they are on the right side of the debate this time.

[MartyFunkhouser]

I don't want anyone to get conversion-therapy, but the idea of government non-experts legislating medical / psychological treatment is very troubling to me.

My inexpert opinion is that conversion therapy is a terrible thing with terrible outcomes, but this type of debate needs to be left to the scientists and professionals and experts - not legislators. The professional bodies that license and regulate and certify counseling/therapy/etc. should be in charge here.

The LDS church and Gayle R. may be using this argument for religious purposes rather than scientific ones, but I think they are on the right side of the debate this time.

The current rules are being put out by the Department of Professional Licensing, so it is the experts in the field.

The complaints of Gayle are partially the legislature should do this and well that she wants gay kids abused to "fix" them.

The progress of this is the legislature proposed changes. It died after the Eagle forum and Gayle got involved. It got gutted so much the bills sponsor pulled it. The governor then told DOPL to propose a Rule administratively.

[Moliere]

Why ban conversion therapy? Why not just ban it for minors and regulate advertising around it? If I’m an adult and I want to go through conversion therapy at my own cost, why can’t I do that? There are a multitude of things we allow people to do to themselves that are harmful or ineffective or both and we aren’t outright banning those. I mean, let’s ban smoking and drinking as well as DoTerra.

[imanihonjin]

Why ban conversion therapy? Why not just ban it for minors and regulate advertising around it? If I’m an adult and I want to go through conversion therapy at my own cost, why can’t I do that? There are a multitude of things we allow people to do to themselves that are harmful or ineffective or both and we aren’t outright banning those. I mean, let’s ban smoking and drinking as well as DoTerra.

The statute cited by Funk above states that it is a ban on those under the age of 18.

[MartyFunkhouser]

Why ban conversion therapy? Why not just ban it for minors and regulate advertising around it? If I’m an adult and I want to go through conversion therapy at my own cost, why can’t I do that? There are a multitude of things we allow people to do to themselves that are harmful or ineffective or both and we aren’t outright banning those. I mean, let’s ban smoking and drinking as well as DoTerra.

It is only banned for minors. If an adult wants to pay someone to abuse them, they are allowed to do that. I don't think we should license people that are willing to engage in abusive therapeutic practices with minors or adults.

Also, there is nothing in this that is prohibiting an adult from taking their child to someone that is willing to abuse the child. It is just that people that abuse children will lose their license.