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  • Originally posted by pelagius View Post
    Sorry, the survey seems fine overall. I think the paper should be more transparent about the journals it drew from gifs its list of economists.

    That's not my main concern. My main concern is survey participants know Lott is the author. His research is controversial so his far from an ideal person to author surveys. His identity by itself can create response bias.
    What's really interesting is that this is a peer reviewed research article and you only know of the possible bias if you know the reputation of the author. In that light it's hard to trust anything the media report. Everyone has a bias, one way or another, and the media aren't accountable to anyone but viewers...who likely listen to the bias they want to hear.

    Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
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    "Outlined against a blue, gray
    October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
    Grantland Rice, 1924

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    • Originally posted by cowboy View Post
      What's really interesting is that this is a peer reviewed research article and you only know of the possible bias if you know the reputation of the author. In that light it's hard to trust anything the media report. Everyone has a bias, one way or another, and the media aren't accountable to anyone but viewers...who likely listen to the bias they want to hear.

      Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
      I still generally think the big picture takeaways are probably fine. I just wouldn't push the numbers too much. I suspect it's overall kind of a weird sample of economists (not just because of a response bias because Lott is controversial). It's a non-mainstream publishing area so that makes it a non-typical group of researchers who publish in the area.

      I think it actually would have been quite interesting if they surveyed economists who are part of say the NBER. It would be interesting to see the differences with the group that publishes in the area (particularly if they added questions that got more directly at hypothetical policy changes that actually affected the stock of guns).
      Last edited by pelagius; 04-19-2018, 02:02 PM.

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      • Originally posted by pelagius View Post
        I still generally think the big picture takeaways are probably fine. I just wouldn't push the numbers too much. I suspect it's overall kind of a weird sample of economists (not just because of a response bias because Lott is controversial). It's a non-mainstream publishing area so that makes it a non-typical group of researchers who publish in the area.

        I think it actually would have been quite interesting if they surveyed economists who are part of say the NBER. It would be interesting to see the differences with the group that publishes in the area (particularly if they added questions that got more directly at hypothetical policy changes that actually affected the stock of guns).
        I finally had time to read the article thoroughly, and I didn't like the way the questions were worded. Also, the final paragraph, which I quoted, was somewhat misleading in it's description of the results. There was really more people on the fence than anything.

        I've said before that the problem with new laws is that there are too many guns in circulation for the existing proposals to have any effect on mass murders, especially in schools. Interestingly, I talked to a security guy at the airport the other day who moved to Cody from Orange County when he retired from the force there. He supports arming qualified teachers who train regularly with law enforcement. The Cody school district passed such a proposal last month He made the point that the most important thing to learn is when to draw and weapon and when to fire. He also said teachers who carry should be required to take basic martial arts classes.

        Our district may move that direction, and let the sheriff's department select and train qualified volunteer teachers. We have several people in each building with law-enforcement or military backgrounds, which may help them qualify. I would envision it as an assigned status that carries a stipend, so it's worth their time. It's cheaper than hiring another half-dozen SROs, and if they have the same training I think I'm okay with it. In the end, if I thought it wouldn't decrease the likelihood of a shooter targeting our school, I'd be less supportive, but I look at the move more as a way to deter shooters rather than just having more bullets fly.
        sigpic
        "Outlined against a blue, gray
        October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
        Grantland Rice, 1924

        Comment


        • You'll be happy to know that Oliver North has found a new solution for gun violence:



          Once we get a handle on regulating violence in popular culture and Ritalin abuse, we should be able to see a decrease in gun violence. And the current interpretation of the second amendment can remain intact. Phew!
          "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
          "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
          - SeattleUte

          Comment


          • Originally posted by cowboy View Post
            I've said before that the problem with new laws is that there are too many guns in circulation for the existing proposals to have any effect on mass murders, especially in schools. Interestingly, I talked to a security guy at the airport the other day who moved to Cody from Orange County when he retired from the force there. He supports arming qualified teachers who train regularly with law enforcement. The Cody school district passed such a proposal last month He made the point that the most important thing to learn is when to draw and weapon and when to fire. He also said teachers who carry should be required to take basic martial arts classes.
            OK so I think all thinking people can agree is that part of the problem is that there are way way too many guns “in circulation” in the United States. When you get a kid who is troubled and capable of killing in a “one in a million” type of way, in the USA that kid is likely be able to get his hands on guns fairly easily. If it takes an overlap between a troubled kid and a gun to cause this issue then that overlap exists in the USA more than other countries because there are so damn many guns.

            So what’s the solution? Definitely one approach is like the Lieutenant Governor of Texas this morning to just say we will never have less guns so let’s focus on arming teachers, making all schools more like federal building with a ton of security and limited access. Let’s just give up on ever having less guns.

            But in my mind it still makes sense to get as many guns as possible off the street. These school shootings are a disease and a necessary component of the disease is guns so let’s get rid of as many guns as possible.

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            • Originally posted by CardiacCoug View Post
              OK so I think all thinking people can agree is that part of the problem is that there are way way too many guns “in circulation” in the United States. When you get a kid who is troubled and capable of killing in a “one in a million” type of way, in the USA that kid is likely be able to get his hands on guns fairly easily. If it takes an overlap between a troubled kid and a gun to cause this issue then that overlap exists in the USA more than other countries because there are so damn many guns.

              So what’s the solution? Definitely one approach is like the Lieutenant Governor of Texas this morning to just say we will never have less guns so let’s focus on arming teachers, making all schools more like federal building with a ton of security and limited access. Let’s just give up on ever having less guns.

              But in my mind it still makes sense to get as many guns as possible off the street. These school shootings are a disease and a necessary component of the disease is guns so let’s get rid of as many guns as possible.
              Another necessary component of the school shootings are schoolchildren. Should we be getting rid of as many of them as possible too?
              τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

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              • Originally posted by All-American View Post
                Another necessary component of the school shootings are schoolchildren. Should we be getting rid of as many of them as possible too?
                That probably solves the problem. But before doing something so drastic, maybe we should consider decreasing the amount of guns in the US.

                And Ritalin.
                "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
                "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
                - SeattleUte

                Comment


                • Originally posted by All-American View Post
                  Another necessary component of the school shootings are schoolchildren. Should we be getting rid of as many of them as possible too?
                  School shooters are doing their best to help you with your proposed solution.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by frank ryan View Post
                    School shooters are doing their best to help you with your proposed solution.
                    You must be sad that a semi-automatic wasn't used to fit your narrative. What will happen when a car or bomb is used?
                    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

                    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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                    • Originally posted by Topper View Post
                      You must be sad that a semi-automatic wasn't used to fit your narrative. What will happen when a car or bomb is used?
                      the fuck are you talking about?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by All-American View Post
                        Another necessary component of the school shootings are schoolchildren. Should we be getting rid of as many of them as possible too?
                        Oh brother.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Topper View Post
                          You must be sad that a semi-automatic wasn't used to fit your narrative. What will happen when a car or bomb is used?
                          I love the attitude that because we don’t have a perfect solution that will work to prevent every single killing that we shouldn’t work on solving the problem of the intersection of crazy kids and guns at all. I don’t get it.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by CardiacCoug View Post
                            I love the attitude that because we don’t have a perfect solution that will work to prevent every single killing that we shouldn’t work on solving the problem of the intersection of crazy kids and guns at all. I don’t get it.
                            My beef is priorities.

                            Alcohol kills more than guns and obesity but people focus solely upon guns. And most of the recent tragedies have been fuck ups by government not using the remedies already in place.

                            Australia had a recent mass murder despite very harsh and oppressive gun laws. I despise the simplistic approach to solving complex problems of violence in the US. Progressive statists want to placate their constituents without regard if the laws will be successful but in order to exact more control and to reduce liberties on a gradual basis.

                            If complex approaches were suggested attacking the root cauaes one might listen to nuanced based restrictions but the progressives use a sledge hanmer in a china shop.
                            Last edited by Topper; 05-20-2018, 09:04 PM.
                            "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

                            Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by CardiacCoug View Post
                              I love the attitude that because we don’t have a perfect solution that will work to prevent every single killing that we shouldn’t work on solving the problem of the intersection of crazy kids and guns at all. I don’t get it.
                              You know you could stop heart attacks by eliminating hearts.
                              "You interns are like swallows. You shit all over my patients for six weeks and then fly off."

                              "Don't be sorry, it's not your fault. It's my fault for overestimating your competence."

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Topper View Post
                                My beef is priorities.

                                Alcohol kills more than guns and obesity but people focus solely upon guns. And most of the recent tragedies have been fuck ups by government not using the remedies already in place.

                                Australia had a recent mass murder despite very harsh and oppressive gun laws. I despise the simplistic approach to solving complex problems of violence in the US. Progressive statists want to placate their constituents without regard if the laws will be successful but in order to exact more control and to reduce liberties on a gradual basis.

                                If complex approaches were suggested attacking the root cauaes one might listen to nuanced based restrictions but the progressives use a sledge hanmer in a china shop.


                                Yeah, lets only tackle one problem at the same time. That's all we can handle.

                                And...yes, obesity and alcohol kill, but they don't indiscriminately kill an entire class room of kids in a 30 second time period. So there's that.

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