Two hour church

[Sizzle]

1. How many of the 12 new temples are mini-temples?

2. Did they announce which meetinghouses will be put up for sale yet? Now they can put 4 wards in each meetinghouse. This will save one building for every 3 meetinghouses.

Some have used the number of new temples as an argument for Church growth. But I think it is important to distinguish between construction of a mini-temple and full-size temples. I hypothesize that the mini-temples are mostly being constructed to try to boost overall temple attendance (by making them proximal to the people), rather than to accommodate existing temple attendance.

There are 159 temples in the world.

In contrast, if you assume 3 wards per meetinghouse, there are 10,169 meetinghouses in the world.

If they put 4 wards into each meetinghouse, this will provide a reduction of 2,542 in the number of necessary meetinghouses.

If you assume that all of the 10,169 meetinghouses were constructed sometime in the last 40 years, then that's an average rate of 254 meetinghouses constructed per year.

Assuming no net increase in number of congregations over the next decade, the LDS Church will not need to build a new meetinghouse for a decade. (In other words, President Nelson will be 104 years old when the Church needs to build a new meetinghouse.)

This makes good financial sense.

You are forgetting that more temples = more tithing = more money. Temples are revenue generating buildings because you have to pay tithing to enter! Chapels aren't.

It's about time the church realizes that and starts focusing on revenue generating buildings.

[Moliere]

Can you imagine how much money the church is going to make in a temple in Cape Verde? The GDP per person there is less than $7k

[Sizzle]

Can you imagine how much money the church is going to make in a temple in Cape Verde? The GDP per person there is less than $7k

Straight cash homie.

[Donuthole]

You are forgetting that more temples = more tithing = more money. Temples are revenue generating buildings because you have to pay tithing to enter!

And that's not even factoring in all the revenue generated off clothing rentals.

[Solon]

Isn't that pretty much what RMN said? Wasn't that the underlying thrust of his remarks about the purpose for this change? Unlike you, he would add saving ordinances and certain acts of priesthood authority, but in general, isnt that what he was saying?

I believe you. I didn't see/listen to conference at all, so I will take your word for it. I just heard all about the change from friends and family with little context.

[ByronMarchant]

Why do you care about this so much? I confess I didn't read all of your lengthy screed about how you came to leave the church (although I think I am familiar with a lot of it from your prior posts) but it looks like you are definitely 'out.' If so, what is your point here? That you don't think the church is divine and that it is led by men based on fictitious or worldly concerns? OK. Thanks. We get that you think this. Or are you trying to help the rest of us see the light? Because, if so, and speaking only for me, you are wasting your time and becoming a bit repetitive. Do you honestly see yourself as pulling back the curtain on the workings of the church because people here haven't considered it? I guess I can give you the .gif analogy, as the small, annoying yappy dog really does seem to fit.

Why should I not care?

I grew up Mormon.

My whole family is Mormon.

I spent 2 years in a terrible place because of Mormon.

I am a big BYU fan that travels to games.

I read the Deseret News.

I have an inquiring mind.

I'm not trying to persuade you of anything. I'm honestly just discussing issues that I think are likely to be relevant. I don't particularly care whether you like it or not. I'm not trying to be popular.

That there is a business approach toward management in the Church is not necessarily a bad thing. I just think that all of us might underestimate the business aspects of these decisions.

For example: We don't have all the data, but I'd guess that focus groups and polling indicate that the word "Mormon" is viewed negatively, so the Church is trying to get away from it. Why is the word "Mormon" viewed negatively? Because of history? Or because of things that the Mormon Church has done recently? Or both? And why are they fleeing from the name?

[BigFatMeanie]

I'm pretty sure that the single biggest expense for the church is BYU. Hands down, not even close.

I love it how Ute fans' tithing subsidizes BYU.

[Omaha 680]

don't forget!

DH's is probably better, but my uncle tells a funny story from the old live actor days in the Manti temple. There was a certain brother who fancied himself as quite the thespian; he was very dramatic in any part he played but his preferred role was Lucifer. One session while playing Lucifer, he wriggled into the room on his stomach to look more like a serpent.

[creekster]

Why should I not care?

I grew up Mormon.

My whole family is Mormon.

I spent 2 years in a terrible place because of Mormon.

I am a big BYU fan that travels to games.

I read the Deseret News.

I have an inquiring mind.

I'm not trying to persuade you of anything. I'm honestly just discussing issues that I think are likely to be relevant. I don't particularly care whether you like it or not. I'm not trying to be popular.

That there is a business approach toward management in the Church is not necessarily a bad thing. I just think that all of us might underestimate the business aspects of these decisions.

For example: We don't have all the data, but I'd guess that focus groups and polling indicate that the word "Mormon" is viewed negatively, so the Church is trying to get away from it. Why is the word "Mormon" viewed negatively? Because of history? Or because of things that the Mormon Church has done recently? Or both? And why are they fleeing from the name?

Why is it when you enumerate the possible motivations you never consider the stated reason? Maybe they made the change for the reason they said: because Christ said in the BoM that this is the name that should be used.

btw, reading the deseret news may be a large part of your problem.

[Northwestcoug]

DH's is probably better, but my uncle tells a funny story from the old live actor days in the Manti temple. There was a certain brother who fancied himself as quite the thespian; he was very dramatic in any part he played but his preferred role was Lucifer. One session while playing Lucifer, he wriggled into the room on his stomach to look more like a serpent.

Um, that one is pretty good!

[ByronMarchant]

Falafel:

1. You violate speakeasy rules repeatedly. This is a shitty thing to do.
2. I don't show up at your damn house.
3. This is a message board. The first iteration of this community was started precisely because it was a free-speech alternative to cougarboard. There is a big difference between free, open discussion on a message board and showing up at your doorstep against your wishes.
4. Why is it so offensive to you that I point out potential financial benefits of 2-hour church? The idea that the Church would make decisions based on dollars or diminishing attendance of youth really pisses you off, doesn't it. Because you think God was the one that decided 2-hour church was the thing to do? Is that how you view 2-hour church?

Tell us why it's so offensive to you that the Church would use focus groups, polls, and dollars to make big decisions.

You want an echo chamber because that's what makes you comfortable. I would be so miserable living in an echo chamber, but to each his/her own.

[smokymountainrain]

DH's is probably better, but my uncle tells a funny story from the old live actor days in the Manti temple. There was a certain brother who fancied himself as quite the thespian; he was very dramatic in any part he played but his preferred role was Lucifer. One session while playing Lucifer, he wriggled into the room on his stomach to look more like a serpent.

lol. that's pretty good.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I’m probably the only person in Church of Jesus Christ-ism that is disappointed in the two hour church. I’ve have felt a sadness all week over the announcement. There is a part of me that recognizes how dorky it is, but church is my favorite time of the week, even the boring awful lessons that constitute every 5th Sunday and most EQ meetings. My Sunday school classes for the last four and a half years have been a weekly motivation to do better and inspiration from the great youth in my ward. I feel very much like the Church has taken away a life raft from me.

I don’t have an anger towards leaders or the rest of the Church of Jesus Christians who are excited and looking forward to the new shorter church. I just feel a void which will be hard for me to fill with something of equal or greater spiritual value.

[tooblue]

I’m probably the only person in Church of Jesus Christ-ism that is disappointed in the two hour church. I’ve have felt a sadness all week over the announcement. There is a part of me that recognizes how dorky it is, but church is my favorite time of the week, even the boring awful lessons that constitute every 5th Sunday and most EQ meetings. My Sunday school classes for the last four and a half years have been a weekly motivation to do better and inspiration from the great youth in my ward. I feel very much like the Church has taken away a life raft from me.

I don’t have an anger towards leaders or the rest of the Church of Jesus Christians who are excited and looking forward to the new shorter church. I just feel a void which will be hard for me to fill with something of equal or greater spiritual value.

There's nothing dorky about your sentiments. I felt a similar pang of sadness, for similar reasons. I love teaching youth Sunday School and look forward to my class every week. But if I am to be honest, Elders quorum, or before that High Priests Group lessons, were/are terrible, so I am looking forward to fewer of those.

One thing I am really excited about is the emphasis on more gospel learning in the home on Sundays. My wife and I have already started making plans—We've got all kinds of ideas. I guess maybe it's due in part to the fact my two oldest children are recently married and the third oldest is on a mission. In a certain manner my two youngest children have been ignored, or at least we haven't had as much energy for them. This kind of feels like a reset for us, and I am excited about that.

[YOhio]

I’m probably the only person in Church of Jesus Christ-ism that is disappointed in the two hour church. I’ve have felt a sadness all week over the announcement. There is a part of me that recognizes how dorky it is, but church is my favorite time of the week, even the boring awful lessons that constitute every 5th Sunday and most EQ meetings. My Sunday school classes for the last four and a half years have been a weekly motivation to do better and inspiration from the great youth in my ward. I feel very much like the Church has taken away a life raft from me.

I don’t have an anger towards leaders or the rest of the Church of Jesus Christians who are excited and looking forward to the new shorter church. I just feel a void which will be hard for me to fill with something of equal or greater spiritual value.

I'll be there for you.