Boston Bombers: Murderers or Terrorists?

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  • byu71
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2008
    • 22070

    #16
    Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
    Either we are all equal before the law, or the Constitution of the United States of America is an old piece of toilet paper.

    The people who agree with you on this are the same people who think the Constitution is subject to interpretation, outdated and drawn up by a bunch of bigots. It is an old piece of toilet papter until their interpretation fits their need to strongly uphold it.

    Comment

    • Coach McGuirk
      1
      • Nov 2008
      • 12109

      #17
      Originally posted by SoCalCoug View Post
      I'm not following the Miranda rights controversy. I'm thinking they likely have enough evidence to prosecute him without needing his confession. Is he giving information to the authorities without having his Miranda rights read first?

      Now, I'm not a criminal attorney, but Miranda rights aren't necessary for arresting someone. They're necessary for questioning someone in custody.

      It seems he's not being interviewed and providing information in writing. Is there any reason to believe the investigators didn't read him his Miranda rights before they started questioning him? Seriously, what's with all the concern over his Miranda rights?
      Now, the DOJ has announced that Tsarnaev will not be read his Miranda rights, citing the “public danger” exception in the 5th Amendment. But the language in the amendment doesn’t remotely apply to this situation, nor is it even related to the protection against being a witness against oneself. It reads,

      “No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”

      First of all, Tsarnaev is not in the Army, Navy or militia. Even if he were, the language would only have applied if Tsarnaev had been observed with the bomb in his hands just before committing the crime. The exception gives law enforcement the power to arrest him without first getting a Grand Jury indictment under those circumstances. It doesn’t release the government from the prohibition against compelling Tsarnaev to be a witness against himself after his arrest, which is the basis for Miranda.

      If Tsarnaev is guilty, then the public danger was over once he was arrested. The government has no authority to waive any of its obligations for due process. He should be read his rights and allowed to remain silent without molestation. He should have an arraignment where he is given the opportunity to hear the charges against him and enter a plea of guilty or not guilty. If he is unable to afford a lawyer, one should be assigned to him at public expense. His guilt should be decided by a jury of his peers, not the government or the media.

      The Bill of Rights was written for Dzhokar Tsarnaev. It wasn’t written for those suspected of minor violations.
      http://c.washingtontimes.com/neighbo...okar-tsarnaev/
      Last edited by Coach McGuirk; 04-22-2013, 09:26 AM.

      Comment

      • Eddie
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2009
        • 8098

        #18
        Originally posted by Coach McGuirk View Post
        Either way they should be tried as US citizens and be read miranda rights. But really the Bill of Rights doesn't exist anymore anyway.
        Originally posted by SoCalCoug View Post
        I'm not following the Miranda rights controversy. I'm thinking they likely have enough evidence to prosecute him without needing his confession. Is he giving information to the authorities without having his Miranda rights read first?

        Now, I'm not a criminal attorney, but Miranda rights aren't necessary for arresting someone. They're necessary for questioning someone in custody.

        It seems he's not being interviewed and providing information in writing. Is there any reason to believe the investigators didn't read him his Miranda rights before they started questioning him? Seriously, what's with all the concern over his Miranda rights?
        I thought that the Miranda Rights were about not incriminating yourself. So - if they have enough evidence that they aren't planning to use any statements from him in court, then is there a need for Miranda?

        I also wonder if they are hoping that by not telling him he has the right to remain silent they may get information from him that would allow them to go after someone else. Did someone provide training? Supplies? Money? Was anyone else involved or did anyone else know about the plan and not report it to authorities?

        I'm no attorney - so I could be very wrong. But I get the impression this isn't about him not having rights, it is about LE knowing that they have all kinds of physical evidence to go with the bombs he was throwing at them during the car chase / shoot out and don't care what he has to say when it comes to providing evidence to prosecute him. But they want info on anyone else involved. And they aren't protected by his Miranda rights.

        Comment

        • SoCalCoug
          Ragnar Lodbrok Descendant
          • Nov 2008
          • 5214

          #19

          So I guess they want to treat him as a foreign combatant and torture him? Is that it?
          If we disagree on something, it's because you're wrong.

          "Somebody needs to kill my trial attorney." — Last words of George Harris, executed in Missouri on Sept. 13, 2000.

          "Nothing is too good to be true, nothing is too good to last, nothing is too wonderful to happen." - Florence Scoville Shinn

          Comment

          • Coach McGuirk
            1
            • Nov 2008
            • 12109

            #20
            Originally posted by SoCalCoug View Post
            So I guess they want to treat him as a foreign combatant and torture him? Is that it?
            pretty much.

            Comment

            • byu71
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2008
              • 22070

              #21
              Originally posted by Coach McGuirk View Post
              pretty much.
              I am NOT for torturing him. That would piss off a lot of Jihadist's. We have already pissed off a lot of Jihadists with the drone strikes. If we hadn't been doing those who knows, maybe these two would have ended up being very productive citizens and done great things.

              Comment

              • Uncle Ted
                The Big 12 money shot.
                • Apr 2010
                • 28853

                #22
                Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                Because we are a civilized people. Either we are all equal before the law, or the Constitution of the United States of America is an old piece of toilet paper. He is a citizen, whether by birth or recent adoption; he has rights the same as any other citizen, rights so important that we wrote them down and made them the law of the land. The rights are the same for what he did and the pot smoker; the punishments will not be.
                Don't worry... the white house is apparently doing the right thing and won't be trying him as an enemy combatant (according to the AP). They most likely figure they can't beat a lot of the kid anyways since he was just following his older brother around like a puppy.
                "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                Comment

                • woot
                  Resident Science Cop
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 5531

                  #23
                  Originally posted by byu71 View Post
                  The people who agree with you on this are the same people who think the Constitution is subject to interpretation, outdated and drawn up by a bunch of bigots. It is an old piece of toilet papter until their interpretation fits their need to strongly uphold it.
                  Wait so you don't agree that constitution should change with the times? Are you not in favor of women, blacks, and non-landowners voting? Seems like a weird argument.

                  Comment

                  • byu71
                    Senior Member
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 22070

                    #24
                    Originally posted by woot View Post
                    Wait so you don't agree that constitution should change with the times? Are you not in favor of women, blacks, and non-landowners voting? Seems like a weird argument.
                    Seriously???? That is what you got form what I said, that women and blacks, etc. shouldn't be able to vote??? Besides these are amendments and thus part of the constitution, right??

                    What I am saying is people who on one hand say it is a living document to be changed and interpreted and then say in this case, we are violating the sacred constitution. I am not a fan of an elite class who think they know it all.

                    Comment

                    • Blueintheface
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2009
                      • 15382

                      #25
                      How will the Feds go after them? With reckless abandon.

                      My guess is that the signers of the Constitution wanted exactly what is stated in the Constitution to apply to all citizens regardless of alleged crime (duh!) and thus they be tried as murderers with due process under the law. I would also have to suppose these same men would be appalled that in just over 200 years we've managed to allow a government, not too dissimilar to King George's, to circumvent the Constitution with impunity while pacifying its citizenry into believing it's for the greater good.
                      "Either evolution or intelligent design can account for the athlete, but neither can account for the sports fan." - Robert Brault

                      "Once I seen the trades go down and the other guys signed elsewhere," he said, "I knew it was my time now." - Derrick Favors

                      Comment

                      • wuapinmon
                        Soul Plumber
                        • Dec 2008
                        • 30711

                        #26
                        Originally posted by byu71 View Post
                        The people who agree with you on this are the same people who think the Constitution is subject to interpretation, outdated and drawn up by a bunch of bigots. It is an old piece of toilet papter until their interpretation fits their need to strongly uphold it.
                        I think some things needs updating, which we've done as a nation, from time to time. via the amendment process. However, the Bill of Rights, to me, is sacrosanct. Of course, I'm one of those moderates that neither side cares about.
                        "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
                        The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

                        Comment

                        • byu71
                          Senior Member
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 22070

                          #27
                          Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                          I think some things needs updating, which we've done as a nation, from time to time. via the amendment process. However, the Bill of Rights, to me, is sacrosanct. Of course, I'm one of those moderates that neither side cares about.

                          We both can agree on how important the Bill of Rights is and why both of us applaud the Senate for not passing that crazy gun law.

                          Comment

                          • Indy Coug
                            Heartless Bastard
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 18747

                            #28
                            Bomber will not be tried as enemy combatant:

                            Everything in life is an approximation.

                            http://twitter.com/CougarStats

                            Comment

                            • wuapinmon
                              Soul Plumber
                              • Dec 2008
                              • 30711

                              #29
                              Originally posted by byu71 View Post
                              We both can agree on how important the Bill of Rights is and why both of us applaud the Senate for not passing that crazy gun law.
                              Of course. I think that when we try to limit the rights of some, we wind up limiting our own. I'd love to see the SCOTUS hand down some harsh judgments against Presidents who seek to abuse executive power. Roberts was seething against Obama for relying on the courts to do his political dirty work vis a vis DOMA. It'd be great if that leash broke.
                              "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
                              The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

                              Comment

                              • Uncle Ted
                                The Big 12 money shot.
                                • Apr 2010
                                • 28853

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
                                Bomber will not be tried as enemy combatant:

                                http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...emy-combatant/
                                Given that fox is now reporting it must be true.
                                "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                                "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                                "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                                GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                                Comment

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