Temple Secrecy

[Shakey]

The Grand Archivist and Historian for the Scottish Rite

is from Provo. I went to high school with him and he served in the Munich mission while I was in D-dorf. His dad is/was a BYU professor.

Anyway, the Scottish Rite is the world's largest Masonic organization. I was watching a Masonic thing on the Discovery Channel and up popped Art De Hoyas, who I hadn't seen in many years.

His part starts at the 1:28 mark. It was kind of funny seeing him in that context.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUFzauu3mIg

[Sleeping in EQ]

Ok, something about the temple endowment ceremony that's always made me wonder.....Peter, James, and John are not born yet....how can they shake hands?

I can't decide if I'm supposed to take the ceremony as an actual occurrence or just a story to help us understand the contexts of some of our covenants.

I think I understand where you are coming from, but in my field "just a story" is a huge deal. I could make a solid philosophical argument that human identity exists within narrative.

For example, try answering the question "Who are you?"

"Who" implies the narration of a life story. It is only in the stories we tell others and ourselves about our lives and about (real or fictitious) other lives that we articulate our own selves.

I'd further walk this "narrative identity" argument through Martin Heidegger's assertion about human's ontological status: Our "being" is more of a "becoming," that is, unlike stones, human acts are always oriented toward our future possibilities and are always determined by possibilities we realized in the past.

We exist in narratives. I think the endowment is intended to make us aware of this fact.

[wuapinmon]

I'd further walk this "narrative identity" argument through Martin Heidegger's assertion about human's ontological status: Our "being" is more of a "becoming," that is, unlike stones, human acts are always oriented toward our future possibilities and are always determined by possibilities we realized in the past.

I never thought I'd ever hear Heideggers' "being towards death" used as an explanation of the nature of the temple ceremony.......thank you for your perspective. Incidentally, what's your field?

[Sleeping in EQ]

I never thought I'd ever hear Heideggers' "being towards death" used as an explanation of the nature of the temple ceremony.......thank you for your perspective. Incidentally, what's your field?

Communication studies. But I've had more than my share of phenomenology along the way.

[pellegrino]

We exist in narratives. I think the endowment is intended to make us aware of this fact.

Very well said SIEQ, as usual, you've distilled the argument to its essence.

When you get down to it, that is the entire purpose of the endowment ceremony, to bring mankind to a higher consciousness of the grand narrative to which we all belong and to which we all contribute.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Very well said SIEQ, as usual, you've distilled the argument to its essence.

When you get down to it, that is the entire purpose of the endowment ceremony, to bring mankind to a higher consciousness of the grand narrative to which we all belong and to which we all contribute.

Sounds impressive. Care to translate for us common folk?

[Portland Ute]

Can anyone think of a better way to introduce the temple endowment? I was not well prepared for the endowment. It was one shock after another, starting with the introduction, which essentially said this:

You are about to receive your own endowment, or you are here to receive the endowment on behalf of someone who has died. If this is your own endowment, you will make serious promises to keep some things private from the world. If you break these promises there will be eternal consequences, however because of the sacredness of the promises you will not have learned what they are yet. If you aren't ready to make a bunch of promises that have never been fully explained to you, and for which you will be severely punished for breaking or abandoning, now is the time to walk out of the room, in front of the friends and family who have probably all traveled here at some considerable personal expense to experience this glorious day with you. You now have five seconds to choose.

There is a lot of truth to what you say. I had no idea what was going on, only that I was made to believe that it was very important, even if I didn't know what it really was. Then, if I said or later realized that I didn't agree, that my eternal life was screwed. And this all with family and friends looking on.

[byu71]

That's actually a 19th century mason myth that may have attracted JS to the masonic rituals, and was definitely perpetuated by Brigham Young and others. Your mother probably believed that it was true, as there are still some masons that believe it as well as many Mormons.

Wow, are you guys sure it isn't true? I believe it and is how I reconciled that a couple of the rituals in my fraternity (Christian based fraternity) are like those in the Temple.

It was a shocker to me when leaving the wild frat for the Temple, pre-mission, to find those couple of things that were in common.

[UtahDan]

Wow, are you guys sure it isn't true? I believe it and is how I reconciled that a couple of the rituals in my fraternity (Christian based fraternity) are like those in the Temple.

It was a shocker to me when leaving the wild frat for the Temple, pre-mission, to find those couple of things that were in common.

And there it is. BYU71 is a member of Skull and Bones.

[SuperGabers]

The first time I went through, a week b/f we married, I kept looking over at Utah Dan with the expression of "What the hell???"

I can say my first visit and some thereafter were disappointing. From the time we are little we are taught to love the temple and that we "are going there someday"...

I was expecting a big old spiritual experience and am still waiting for one. It has been disappointing to me and there are a few things in the ceremony I really don't like in the view of being a woman.

I really don't get why MY face has to be veiled. And it totally bugs that in order for me to connect with God, I have to go through my husband. WHAT?!?!

I know some people say they love the temple. Perhaps I will feel the same way one day, but as for now, I really don't like going.

[faith]

The first time I went through, a week b/f we married, I kept looking over at Utah Dan with the expression of "What the hell???"

I can say my first visit and some thereafter were disappointing. From the time we are little we are taught to love the temple and that we "are going there someday"...

I was expecting a big old spiritual experience and am still waiting for one. It has been disappointing to me and there are a few things in the ceremony I really don't like in the view of being a woman.

I really don't get why MY face has to be veiled. And it totally bugs that in order for me to connect with God, I have to go through my husband. WHAT?!?!

I know some people say they love the temple. Perhaps I will feel the same way one day, but as for now, I really don't like going.

Thanks for sharing the experience. I really appreciate the honesty.

I have felt many of the same concerns that you expressed and my first temple-going experience was horrible. I drove with my mother to DC from Long Island, NY to take out my endowments. I vomited the whole way down and still felt ill as I walked into the temple. Much of my memory of the experience is a surreal blur, but I remember feeling absolutely shocked and overwhelmed at the clothing and ceremony. It was nothing like I expected. I didn’t want to say anything to anyone about how awful my experience was because all of my branch members were so enthusiastic. I felt very alone and wondered what was wrong with me. I shared a little bit of my feelings with my mom and she felt like I was being tested by Satan, especially since I was about to leave on a mission.

I have always envied my friends who had such strong testimonies of the temple.

[Art Vandelay]

Yes.

I posted a review here:

http://cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13818

Highly recommended.

This is an interesting thread, for those like me who were never cool enough to be invited to CG ( to all of you former members) this is well worth the click over. Dude gives an excellent review.

[SeattleUte]

This is an interesting thread, for those like me who were never cool enough to be invited to CG ( to all of you former members) this is well worth the click over. Dude gives an excellent review.

Someday we are going to rescue those brass plates. Our Nephi, Pelagius, will wack Waters' head off if it comes to that. (Apologies to those cool few who have seen this joke before.)

[Jarid in Cedar]

Wow, are you guys sure it isn't true? I believe it and is how I reconciled that a couple of the rituals in my fraternity (Christian based fraternity) are like those in the Temple.

It was a shocker to me when leaving the wild frat for the Temple, pre-mission, to find those couple of things that were in common.

I kind of chuckled when I realized the same thing.

[byu71]

I kind of chuckled when I realized the same thing.

IN HOC, bro.