Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

At what point did you / will you take the coronavirus epidemic seriously?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by jay santos View Post
    Bad data is one thing. But so much of what we've done has been straight up drama. People fighting over who can appear to be more caring. Leaders of government and industry being shamed into the most extreme decisions because if they don't they will be accused of being evil money grubbers. We appear to be near the peak of this thing and we're at 16K deaths. What a waste.
    this was always going to be the outcome: if deaths were less than predicted, protective measures that were themselves the cause of fewer deaths would be viewed in retrospect as a waste.
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by old_gregg View Post
      this was always going to be the outcome: if deaths were less than predicted, protective measures that were themselves the cause of fewer deaths would be viewed in retrospect as a waste.
      Thirteen deaths in Utah. And I'm reading news stories criticizing the governor for not completely shutting down the state.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by jay santos View Post
        Thirteen deaths in Utah. And I'm reading news stories criticizing the governor for not completely shutting down the state.
        Did they all die in nursing homes?
        When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

        --Jonathan Swift

        Comment


        • Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
          Did they all die in nursing homes?
          I heard there was a cluster of 4 in a nursing home. Not sure about the rest.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
            I'm an expert on the untold misery and death and loss of liberty that will occur if we continue the current course economically. I've read many books on that subject, and even lived through it--while it occurred in other places, fortunately.

            The only things that will save us are capitalism, America's healthcare system, and large pharmaceutical companies. It's that simple.
            Your lack of faith in America and capitalism is sad. Americans won't stand for the shut down for much longer. We all agree that this temporary shut down is necessary if at least to slow the spread and to enforce in our minds the necessities of social distancing and proper hygiene. But I can guarantee that if the politicians don't start to allow things to open up by early May, you are going to see Americans in most places no longer stand for the strict stay at home measures. There will be willful rebellion and a call for current politicians to be replaced at the ballot box in November. Like I said, Americans are fine being disrupted for a short period of time, but come warmer weather and absurd amounts of cabin fever and a slight destruction in their wealth and all mayhem will break loose.

            Have faith in your fellow Americans, brother.
            "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

            Comment


            • My concern is starting to turn to those third world countries without near the medical infrastructure we enjoy. The mortality rate will surely go up in those places.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by old_gregg View Post
                this was always going to be the outcome: if deaths were less than predicted, protective measures that were themselves the cause of fewer deaths would be viewed in retrospect as a waste.
                And it was always going to be the case that no matter the decrease in deaths, the proponents of the stringent lockdown measures will say everything we did was absolutely, positively necessary or we would have hit the higher projections. Both positions are tedious but the point is we were successful. We did what we had to do absent data and the reality is a lot better than the experts said it could be. I think it is a combination of the projections being too high and Americans really taking distancing more seriously than the modelers thought was possible. But regardless now is the time to chart a way back to normalcy. Characterizing our current situation as "working from home for another month" is hyperbole. What we are doing is a lot more dangerous than that.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                  Did they all die in nursing homes?
                  This common conception should be updated. Of all known clusters of cases in the US, the top 6 are not associated with nursing homes.
                  "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
                  "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
                  - SeattleUte

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by jay santos View Post
                    Thirteen deaths in Utah. And I'm reading news stories criticizing the governor for not completely shutting down the state.
                    It's beyond ridiculous, whatever Utah is doing is clearly enough. It's exactly what you're saying, everyone trying to be more caring/moral/orthodox than the next person.
                    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Omaha 680 View Post
                      And it was always going to be the case that no matter the decrease in deaths, the proponents of the stringent lockdown measures will say everything we did was absolutely, positively necessary or we would have hit the higher projections. Both positions are tedious but the point is we were successful. We did what we had to do absent data and the reality is a lot better than the experts said it could be. I think it is a combination of the projections being too high and Americans really taking distancing more seriously than the modelers thought was possible. But regardless now is the time to chart a way back to normalcy. Characterizing our current situation as "working from home for another month" is hyperbole. What we are doing is a lot more dangerous than that.
                      all of this is fair and most i agree with. i'm criticizing two things:

                      1. the complete lack of intellectual horsepower being devoted to what the actual costs of preventative measures look like. keep in mind that we're talking about the incremental costs of measures above those necessary to prevent the worst case virus spread scenario, not the overall cost of all preventative measures. this is a complicated and nuanced discussion. we've discussed ad nauseam the potential issues with the models and epidemiological data, but nobody has presented a single coherent and quantifiable scenario about the actual economic costs. that makes it impossible to evaluate alternatives.

                      2. the melodramatic race to the great depression/wwiii/major war/every single catastrophe in human existence scenario. this is at least as lazy as the million+ death projections some people made and probably more harmful to the discussion, and particularly obnoxious given su (the book reading liberal artist) checking credentials at the door and appealing to the authority of bloomberg contributors qua scientists instead of thinking critically about this.
                      Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Bo Diddley View Post
                        I heard there was a cluster of 4 in a nursing home. Not sure about the rest.
                        26 year old girl died in Utah. Not sure if she was in a nursing home.

                        Edit: She might have been 24.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by beefytee View Post
                          26 year old girl died in Utah. Not sure if she was in a nursing home.

                          Edit: She might have been 24.
                          is that one that was obese and recently had heart surgery?
                          Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                            Your lack of faith in America and capitalism is sad. Americans won't stand for the shut down for much longer. We all agree that this temporary shut down is necessary if at least to slow the spread and to enforce in our minds the necessities of social distancing and proper hygiene. But I can guarantee that if the politicians don't start to allow things to open up by early May, you are going to see Americans in most places no longer stand for the strict stay at home measures. There will be willful rebellion and a call for current politicians to be replaced at the ballot box in November. Like I said, Americans are fine being disrupted for a short period of time, but come warmer weather and absurd amounts of cabin fever and a slight destruction in their wealth and all mayhem will break loose.

                            Have faith in your fellow Americans, brother.
                            This is hubris. Hubris got us into this mess in the first place. It's possible our descendants will see this debacle more as a collective psychosis than a pandemic. Like Byzantium suffered when it went crazy Christian. A sign of our decadence. Ross Douthat published book about our collective mental illness just before the Covid hit.

                            All we're saying is this has to stop. It can't go on. There are competing values. Duh. What we're doing to the economy is or could soon become an existential crisis. We now know that Covid-19 is not an existential crisis. Yesterday even MBN agreed that any working American has a greater chance of dying in a car accident driving to work than dying of Covid-19. So where is the discussion of competing interests and how and when the economy would be opened?

                            It's time for someone to show real leadership and give us a specific path out in the FORESEEABLE FUTURE, while articulating what's truly at stake, like Churchill did after Dunkirk. With that, the economy can recover by year's end. Any rational person who knows he's less likely to die of Covid than in a car wreck commuting to work will return to work, and the bars, etc. I will vote for that person whow exercises that leadership. I'm tired of Governor Inslee being called a genius just because he shut everything down in March and murdered the economy. I have seen no real leadership.
                            When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

                            --Jonathan Swift

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by old_gregg View Post
                              is that one that was obese and recently had heart surgery?
                              Are you rejecting the data that just about everyone who dies is very old and/or has a serious life-threatening underlying health problem?
                              When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

                              --Jonathan Swift

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                                Are you rejecting the data that just about everyone who dies is very old and/or has a serious life-threatening underlying health problem?
                                that's the opposite of what i was doing, dingleberry. but, an enormous portion of the american population has "a serious life-threatening underlying health problem": 10% of americans have diabetes and 42% are obese, for example.
                                Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X