View Poll Results: At what point did/will you take the coronavirus epidemic seriously?

Voters
45. You may not vote on this poll
  • From the Social Media rumors at the very beginning

    2 4.44%
  • When CCP abruptly stopped arresting journalists, and announced 3 hospitals in 1 week

    5 11.11%
  • When I tried to buy masks online from Amazon, Home Depot & Lowes, only to find everywhere sold out

    1 2.22%
  • When WHO declared a global emergency

    6 13.33%
  • When the US closed its borders to non-americans

    3 6.67%
  • When the lethality passed SARS

    0 0%
  • When they cancel Church in my area

    3 6.67%
  • I'm still not going to panic

    25 55.56%
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Thread: At what point did you / will you take the coronavirus epidemic seriously?

  1. #2251

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    Bad data is one thing. But so much of what we've done has been straight up drama. People fighting over who can appear to be more caring. Leaders of government and industry being shamed into the most extreme decisions because if they don't they will be accused of being evil money grubbers. We appear to be near the peak of this thing and we're at 16K deaths. What a waste.
    this was always going to be the outcome: if deaths were less than predicted, protective measures that were themselves the cause of fewer deaths would be viewed in retrospect as a waste.
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  2. #2252

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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    this was always going to be the outcome: if deaths were less than predicted, protective measures that were themselves the cause of fewer deaths would be viewed in retrospect as a waste.
    Thirteen deaths in Utah. And I'm reading news stories criticizing the governor for not completely shutting down the state.

  3. #2253
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    Thirteen deaths in Utah. And I'm reading news stories criticizing the governor for not completely shutting down the state.
    Did they all die in nursing homes?
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

  4. #2254

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Did they all die in nursing homes?
    I heard there was a cluster of 4 in a nursing home. Not sure about the rest.

  5. #2255
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    I'm an expert on the untold misery and death and loss of liberty that will occur if we continue the current course economically. I've read many books on that subject, and even lived through it--while it occurred in other places, fortunately.

    The only things that will save us are capitalism, America's healthcare system, and large pharmaceutical companies. It's that simple.
    Your lack of faith in America and capitalism is sad. Americans won't stand for the shut down for much longer. We all agree that this temporary shut down is necessary if at least to slow the spread and to enforce in our minds the necessities of social distancing and proper hygiene. But I can guarantee that if the politicians don't start to allow things to open up by early May, you are going to see Americans in most places no longer stand for the strict stay at home measures. There will be willful rebellion and a call for current politicians to be replaced at the ballot box in November. Like I said, Americans are fine being disrupted for a short period of time, but come warmer weather and absurd amounts of cabin fever and a slight destruction in their wealth and all mayhem will break loose.

    Have faith in your fellow Americans, brother.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  6. #2256

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    My concern is starting to turn to those third world countries without near the medical infrastructure we enjoy. The mortality rate will surely go up in those places.

  7. #2257

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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    this was always going to be the outcome: if deaths were less than predicted, protective measures that were themselves the cause of fewer deaths would be viewed in retrospect as a waste.
    And it was always going to be the case that no matter the decrease in deaths, the proponents of the stringent lockdown measures will say everything we did was absolutely, positively necessary or we would have hit the higher projections. Both positions are tedious but the point is we were successful. We did what we had to do absent data and the reality is a lot better than the experts said it could be. I think it is a combination of the projections being too high and Americans really taking distancing more seriously than the modelers thought was possible. But regardless now is the time to chart a way back to normalcy. Characterizing our current situation as "working from home for another month" is hyperbole. What we are doing is a lot more dangerous than that.

  8. #2258

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Did they all die in nursing homes?
    This common conception should be updated. Of all known clusters of cases in the US, the top 6 are not associated with nursing homes.

  9. #2259

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    Thirteen deaths in Utah. And I'm reading news stories criticizing the governor for not completely shutting down the state.
    It's beyond ridiculous, whatever Utah is doing is clearly enough. It's exactly what you're saying, everyone trying to be more caring/moral/orthodox than the next person.
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

  10. #2260

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omaha 680 View Post
    And it was always going to be the case that no matter the decrease in deaths, the proponents of the stringent lockdown measures will say everything we did was absolutely, positively necessary or we would have hit the higher projections. Both positions are tedious but the point is we were successful. We did what we had to do absent data and the reality is a lot better than the experts said it could be. I think it is a combination of the projections being too high and Americans really taking distancing more seriously than the modelers thought was possible. But regardless now is the time to chart a way back to normalcy. Characterizing our current situation as "working from home for another month" is hyperbole. What we are doing is a lot more dangerous than that.
    all of this is fair and most i agree with. i'm criticizing two things:

    1. the complete lack of intellectual horsepower being devoted to what the actual costs of preventative measures look like. keep in mind that we're talking about the incremental costs of measures above those necessary to prevent the worst case virus spread scenario, not the overall cost of all preventative measures. this is a complicated and nuanced discussion. we've discussed ad nauseam the potential issues with the models and epidemiological data, but nobody has presented a single coherent and quantifiable scenario about the actual economic costs. that makes it impossible to evaluate alternatives.

    2. the melodramatic race to the great depression/wwiii/major war/every single catastrophe in human existence scenario. this is at least as lazy as the million+ death projections some people made and probably more harmful to the discussion, and particularly obnoxious given su (the book reading liberal artist) checking credentials at the door and appealing to the authority of bloomberg contributors qua scientists instead of thinking critically about this.
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  11. #2261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo Diddley View Post
    I heard there was a cluster of 4 in a nursing home. Not sure about the rest.
    26 year old girl died in Utah. Not sure if she was in a nursing home.

    Edit: She might have been 24.

  12. #2262

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    Quote Originally Posted by beefytee View Post
    26 year old girl died in Utah. Not sure if she was in a nursing home.

    Edit: She might have been 24.
    is that one that was obese and recently had heart surgery?
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  13. #2263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    Your lack of faith in America and capitalism is sad. Americans won't stand for the shut down for much longer. We all agree that this temporary shut down is necessary if at least to slow the spread and to enforce in our minds the necessities of social distancing and proper hygiene. But I can guarantee that if the politicians don't start to allow things to open up by early May, you are going to see Americans in most places no longer stand for the strict stay at home measures. There will be willful rebellion and a call for current politicians to be replaced at the ballot box in November. Like I said, Americans are fine being disrupted for a short period of time, but come warmer weather and absurd amounts of cabin fever and a slight destruction in their wealth and all mayhem will break loose.

    Have faith in your fellow Americans, brother.
    This is hubris. Hubris got us into this mess in the first place. It's possible our descendants will see this debacle more as a collective psychosis than a pandemic. Like Byzantium suffered when it went crazy Christian. A sign of our decadence. Ross Douthat published book about our collective mental illness just before the Covid hit.

    All we're saying is this has to stop. It can't go on. There are competing values. Duh. What we're doing to the economy is or could soon become an existential crisis. We now know that Covid-19 is not an existential crisis. Yesterday even MBN agreed that any working American has a greater chance of dying in a car accident driving to work than dying of Covid-19. So where is the discussion of competing interests and how and when the economy would be opened?

    It's time for someone to show real leadership and give us a specific path out in the FORESEEABLE FUTURE, while articulating what's truly at stake, like Churchill did after Dunkirk. With that, the economy can recover by year's end. Any rational person who knows he's less likely to die of Covid than in a car wreck commuting to work will return to work, and the bars, etc. I will vote for that person whow exercises that leadership. I'm tired of Governor Inslee being called a genius just because he shut everything down in March and murdered the economy. I have seen no real leadership.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

  14. #2264
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    is that one that was obese and recently had heart surgery?
    Are you rejecting the data that just about everyone who dies is very old and/or has a serious life-threatening underlying health problem?
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

  15. #2265

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Are you rejecting the data that just about everyone who dies is very old and/or has a serious life-threatening underlying health problem?
    that's the opposite of what i was doing, dingleberry. but, an enormous portion of the american population has "a serious life-threatening underlying health problem": 10% of americans have diabetes and 42% are obese, for example.
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  16. #2266

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    This is hubris. Hubris got us into this mess in the first place. It's possible our descendants will see this debacle more as a collective psychosis than a pandemic. Like Byzantium suffered when it went crazy Christian. A sign of our decadence. Ross Douthat published book about our collective mental illness just before the Covid hit.

    All we're saying is this has to stop. It can't go on. There are competing values. Duh. What we're doing to the economy is or could soon become an existential crisis. We now know that Covid-19 is not an existential crisis. Yesterday even MBN agreed that any working American has a greater chance of dying in a car accident driving to work than dying of Covid-19. So where is the discussion of competing interests and how and when the economy would be opened?

    It's time for someone to show real leadership and give us a specific path out in the FORESEEABLE FUTURE, while articulating what's truly at stake, like Churchill did after Dunkirk. With that, the economy can recover by year's end. Any rational person who knows he's less likely to die of Covid than in a car wreck commuting to work will return to work, and the bars, etc. I will vote for that person whow exercises that leadership. I'm tired of Governor Inslee being called a genius just because he shut everything down in March and murdered the economy. I have seen no real leadership.
    You're hilarious. The west coast states have by and large done a solid job managing the pandemic. They are not New York, New Jersey, Florida, or Louisiana, in part due to their leadership. The governors have been pretty consistent with their message. They are closer to statesman-like than any of the governors who've been parroting your 'cure is worse than the disease' message.

  17. #2267

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    I see people at Costco and at my semi-annual trips to Walmart that cause me to marvel at the durability of the human body. Life and death for these people is on a hair trigger.
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

  18. #2268

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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    that's the opposite of what i was doing, dingleberry. but, an enormous portion of the american population has "a serious life-threatening underlying health problem": 10% of americans have diabetes and 42% are obese, for example.
    That's SU for you. He benefits from PNW clean living but wants to be governed more like a southern state.

  19. #2269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
    I see people at Costco and at my semi-annual trips to Walmart that cause me to marvel at the durability of the human body. Life and death for these people is on a hair trigger.
    Seems it takes more than what you see at Costco or in your typical roadside Mississippi all you can eat buffet.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

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  20. #2270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    This common conception should be updated. Of all known clusters of cases in the US, the top 6 are not associated with nursing homes.
    You're really good at going for the capillary.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

  21. #2271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    You're hilarious. The west coast states have by and large done a solid job managing the pandemic. They are not New York, New Jersey, Florida, or Louisiana, in part due to their leadership. The governors have been pretty consistent with their message. They are closer to statesman-like than any of the governors who've been parroting your 'cure is worse than the disease' message.
    Circular logic. And Governor Cuomo disagrees that New York has been less effective responding than the West coast. You assume that the West coast is doing better because they did something different. New York locked down very shortly after the west coast. Maybe it's just they're different in the West, including much less mass transit, less density.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

  22. #2272

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Circular logic. And Governor Cuomo disagrees that New York has been less effective responding than the West coast. You assume that the West coast is doing better because they did something different. New York locked down very shortly after the west coast. Maybe it's just they're different in the West, including much less mass transit, less density.
    Texas has over 70% of the population of California and has 1/2 the cases. I haven't looked at it much, but I don't believe Texas has been more vigilant that California. California has higher density in LA and SF and more people coming from all over the place, so it's got a bigger hill to climb. But that's kind of the point -- the tri-state area is unique and what's happening there shouldn't shape the policy in places like Texas and Utah.
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

  23. #2273

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Circular logic. And Governor Cuomo disagrees that New York has been less effective responding than the West coast. You assume that the West coast is doing better because they did something different. New York locked down very shortly after the west coast. Maybe it's just they're different in the West, including much less mass transit, less density.
    They are doing better in part because of the leadership. If you want another state, then fine, compare them to Florida or Louisiana.

  24. #2274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
    Texas has over 70% of the population of California and has 1/2 the cases. I haven't looked at it much, but I don't believe Texas has been more vigilant that California. California has higher density in LA and SF and more people coming from all over the place, so it's got a bigger hill to climb. But that's kind of the point -- the tri-state area is unique and what's happening there shouldn't shape the policy in places like Texas and Utah.
    Exactly. Duh.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

  25. #2275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
    Texas has over 70% of the population of California and has 1/2 the cases. I haven't looked at it much, but I don't believe Texas has been more vigilant that California. California has higher density in LA and SF and more people coming from all over the place, so it's got a bigger hill to climb. But that's kind of the point -- the tri-state area is unique and what's happening there shouldn't shape the policy in places like Texas and Utah.
    Depends on the county. For example in Dallas county Clay Jenkins (the county judge or executive for the county) was "dethroned" for being too much of a nazi and closing things down, extending the stay at home order until may 20th, etc:

    Dallas County Leaders Vote To Limit Jenkins’ Power, Discuss Temporary Hospital

    Dallas County commissioners voted unanimously Tuesday to limit some of the powers of the office of Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins.

    Jenkins has become the face of the local COVID-19 response, providing almost daily updates and using executive powers to make sweeping decisions for the county’s response.

    Commissioners passed an amendment that requires Jenkins to now notify commissioners before he places any more restrictions on “essential businesses,” giving them time to call a meeting.
    [...]
    https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/op...ay-20/2345191/

    Damn Democrat.
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  26. #2276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Always surprising when I see someone point to the relatively low death rates we are getting with isolation as proof that isolation was a dumb idea. Not too surprising to see it on FB I guess, but really puzzling to see folks here use that logic.
    So what’s your point? Trying to follow your logic here, because apparently you’ve backed off of your original position that the economy counts for nothing, that it’s only the concern of billionaires (as you wrote that from a position of 100% economic security).

    Are you still saying this has to go on indefinitely? Until Covid is completely gone? If not, how will what we have to do differ from wha the could have done in the first first place.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

  27. #2277

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    The difference of what's happening in New Orleans and Vegas is interesting. I've never been to New Orleans, I don't know the area at all -- but Orleans and Jefferson together are around 850k people and they have over 9,000 cases. Clark county has over 2 million people and 2,000 cases. Bourbon street was still packed all the way through March 14 -- I remember people tweeting pictures of the lunacy from that Saturday night. Maybe I need to check the dates on here, but Vegas shut things down around the middle of that week, so around March 10. New Orleans had Mardi Gras but Vegas has all the conventions that occur around that time of year.
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

  28. #2278

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    So what’s your point? Trying to follow your logic here, because apparently you’ve backed off of your original position that the economy counts for nothing, that it’s only the concern of billionaires (as you wrote that from a position of 100% economic security).

    Are you still saying this has to go on indefinitely? Until Covid is completely gone? If not, how will what we have to do differ from wha the could have done in the first first place.
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  29. #2279

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    Screw the 'Rona, Salt Lake residents have bigger pathogen fish to fry.

    https://www.ksl.com/article/46740106...n-storage-tank
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

  30. #2280

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Always surprising when I see someone point to the relatively low death rates we are getting with isolation as proof that isolation was a dumb idea. Not too surprising to see it on FB I guess, but really puzzling to see folks here use that logic.
    I'm pretty good with logic, so let me explain it to you if it's puzzling.

    If you wreck the economy over a virus that looks like it's going to kill far less than 100K lives, then it's extremely likely you could have handled the problem without wrecking the economy. So you say well nobody could know, we had to act conservative. OK. Maybe. But now that we're this far into it and the experts are saying we're hitting the peak and have it under control, it's time for people to go back to work and stop with this nonsense like Utah considering a lockdown.

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