View Poll Results: At what point did/will you take the coronavirus epidemic seriously?

Voters
45. You may not vote on this poll
  • From the Social Media rumors at the very beginning

    2 4.44%
  • When CCP abruptly stopped arresting journalists, and announced 3 hospitals in 1 week

    5 11.11%
  • When I tried to buy masks online from Amazon, Home Depot & Lowes, only to find everywhere sold out

    1 2.22%
  • When WHO declared a global emergency

    6 13.33%
  • When the US closed its borders to non-americans

    3 6.67%
  • When the lethality passed SARS

    0 0%
  • When they cancel Church in my area

    3 6.67%
  • I'm still not going to panic

    25 55.56%
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Thread: At what point did you / will you take the coronavirus epidemic seriously?

  1. #1771

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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    That sounds reasonable and I hope it goes that way. i noticed that U.S. deaths today were about half of the previous day. Could be an anomaly.
    Looks like you were right and the low number on Sunday was the anomaly. Deaths back up near 600 again Monday. The overall US infection curve appears to be flattening, but that may not have a lot of meaning being that we are dealing with regional outbreaks that will each have their own peak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    Just asked Mrs. NWC. It still bothers her.
    Tell her to stop being so unamerican.

  2. #1772
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    It's hard for me to imagine a more hideous bunch of people.

    Tent hospital in Manhattan’s Central Park asks volunteers to support ‘statement of faith’ rejecting same-sex marriage

    Yet unlike the other projects, Samaritan’s Purse has asked all volunteers working at the field hospital — including health workers — to pledge to 11 declarations, Gothamist reports, including one that defines marriage as “exclusively the union of one genetic male and one genetic female” and another that says “human life is sacred from conception to its natural end.”

    The Christian group was founded by Franklin Graham, a minister with a famous preacher as a father and a history of making incendiary comments, and has specifically sought out Christian medical staff for the tent hospital.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  3. #1773
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Crude oil prices in west Texas hit $10.85 yesterday. Storage is full and refiners are asking producers to curtail production. I guess we are about to find out which oil companies are going to survive.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  4. #1774
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Here's a good article explaining the numbers. Deaths are overstated: those who die with Covid-19 vs those those whose deaths are caused by Covid-19. Total infections are grossly understated because only those with severe symptoms get tested. https://spectator.us/understand-repo...-covid-deaths/
    Interesting. He obviously has a bias toward overstating infection rates for COVID-19 at every chance, which I don't understand.

    1. If we assume that inadequate testing is failing to capture all those that are infected, then surely we can also assume it is failing to capture all the deaths that can be attributed to COVID-19. Yet he makes no mention of this possibility.
    2. Cutting such a fine line between "death with the virus" and "death due to the virus" is silly. And his examples are even sillier. I guess now we need to go back and redefine the causes of death for any number of pathologies, including the flu (so oftern compared to COVID-19, as in "blah blah blah number of people die of the flu every year and we don't close down the local pub for that!").
    3. Related to 2, assuming two thirds of the people that die from COVID-19 will die anyway, then again, I guess we now need to go back and readujust our mortality rates for any number of pahologies, including the flu.
    4. Why is the guy expounding on this issue when Italy and Spain are on fire and outbreaks are expanding in the U.S.? Why not share his expertise in dealng with past epidemics to help jurisdictions limit the spread?
    5. Why are we listening to a retired pathology professor and a former NHS pathologist "consultant"?

    Again, I don't understand this seeming need to drive down current assumptions about COVID-19 mortality rates. All we need to do is open our eyes to see that the effect is much worse than the flu.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  5. #1775
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  6. #1776
    𐐐𐐄𐐢𐐆𐐤𐐝 𐐓𐐅 𐐜 𐐢𐐃𐐡𐐔 Uncle Ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    Crude oil prices in west Texas hit $10.85 yesterday. Storage is full and refiners are asking producers to curtail production. I guess we are about to find out which oil companies are going to survive.
    Holy cow. When is the last time it has been that low? The great oil company purge has started.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  7. #1777
    Senior Member Clark Addison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    Samaritan's Purse is headquartered around here, and has a huge facility in the area, with a ton of volunteer opportunities (the youth in our ward do something there every Christmas). They do some good things, but I told the woman on my team at work who coordinates volunteer events to not put together anything with them because of crap like this and some other stuff.

    I haven't heard if Franklin is re-thinking his policies and rhetoric given the blow of losing all those Team Addison volunteer hours.

  8. #1778

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    Crude oil prices in west Texas hit $10.85 yesterday. Storage is full and refiners are asking producers to curtail production. I guess we are about to find out which oil companies are going to survive.
    is this oil <$0 hype because of storage issues for real?
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  9. #1779
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    is this oil <$0 hype because of storage issues for real?
    No idea and I haven't heard it going under $0. I'd be surprised if it did. Producers are already exploring options of shutting in production and WTI (Cushing Oklahoma) is bouncing around $20/bl. Nat gas has gone <$0 several times (just residue gas not when you include the related NGLs) but it's more of a byproduct in the Permian so it's considered more of a cost of operating an oil well when it's negative. When oil prices get low then measures are taken. Pioneer and Parsley are already petitioning the state regulators to curtail production.

    But yes, the steep drop in prices at different locations is due to storage issues. Pipelines are beginning to curtail flow, storage tanks are almost full in Midland and the gulf coast, near term demand has evaporated almost overnight. Canada is going to get hit hard if this continues as are all the weaker OPEC countries like Iraq, Venezuela, Algeria, Nigeria, etc.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  10. #1780

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omaha 680 View Post
    Tell her to stop being so unamerican.
    Bro you trying to get me in the doghouse?

  11. #1781
    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    Interesting. He obviously has a bias toward overstating infection rates for COVID-19 at every chance, which I don't understand.

    1. If we assume that inadequate testing is failing to capture all those that are infected, then surely we can also assume it is failing to capture all the deaths that can be attributed to COVID-19. Yet he makes no mention of this possibility.
    2. Cutting such a fine line between "death with the virus" and "death due to the virus" is silly. And his examples are even sillier. I guess now we need to go back and redefine the causes of death for any number of pathologies, including the flu (so oftern compared to COVID-19, as in "blah blah blah number of people die of the flu every year and we don't close down the local pub for that!").
    3. Related to 2, assuming two thirds of the people that die from COVID-19 will die anyway, then again, I guess we now need to go back and readujust our mortality rates for any number of pahologies, including the flu.
    4. Why is the guy expounding on this issue when Italy and Spain are on fire and outbreaks are expanding in the U.S.? Why not share his expertise in dealng with past epidemics to help jurisdictions limit the spread?
    5. Why are we listening to a retired pathology professor and a former NHS pathologist "consultant"?

    Again, I don't understand this seeming need to drive down current assumptions about COVID-19 mortality rates. All we need to do is open our eyes to see that the effect is much worse than the flu.
    The reason people care about getting a fully developed understanding of the data is that we are doing massive damage to our economy and even traditional system of governance with this shutdown. Real people's lives are being utterly destroyed in ways the government will never be able to fix because of this shutdown. We have never done this before and can't fathom the consequences. So there has to be a rational discussion of tradeoffs. That has to involve understanding what we are sacrificing by taking any course.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

  12. #1782

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    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    Sobering data shared there.
    A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life. - Mohammad Ali

  13. #1783
    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJF View Post
    Sobering data shared there.
    Everything should be considered. We have a very poor understanding of what is going on, which is a travesty given the stakes for everyone.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

  14. #1784
    𐐐𐐄𐐢𐐆𐐤𐐝 𐐓𐐅 𐐜 𐐢𐐃𐐡𐐔 Uncle Ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Reminds me of another anecdote shared recently on Facebook among the RS sisters in the ward. My wife showed it to me... to sum up, a lady in the ward has a sister whose late-40-something-age husband was diagnosed and intubated and will likely die. "It could happen to anyone, even your husband!" So, naturally, it causes a bit of panic. Upon closer inspection this dude looks like he weighs north of 300 lbs, perhaps even pushing 4 bills; certainly not a picture of health. Probably best for the fatties to self-quarantine too.
    Coronavirus death toll rises, obese corona patients dominate in intensive care
    [...]
    Meanwhile, Diederik Gommers, chairman of the Dutch intensive care association, told television talk show Jinek on Friday evening that 66% to 80% of corona patients on intensive care wards that he had seen are overweight. The reason has not yet been investigated, but Gommers said it could be linked to the prevalence of diabetes among obese people, which would make them more vulnerable to the virus. In addition, the extra weight can also make breathing more difficult, he said. A specialist on the programme gave a similar picture. ‘Almost all the patients on an IC ward are overweight,’ Peter van der Voort of Groningen University’s teaching hospital said. ‘We don’t know why, but it is very noticeable.’
    [...]
    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/0...ntensive-care/

    Well, I guess it is time to hit the treadmill.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  15. #1785
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    One other interesting observation is the praise and accolades that Cuomo is getting for his work as governor in NY. It's odd that people are heaping tons of praise on him when his state was woefully unprepared for anything like this and, as late as March 3, politicians in that state were still telling people to ignore the virus and go out and have fun. I guess it's natural for people to rally around a politician when they are trying to dig everyone out of hole, but it seems like he's mostly to blame for the hole being so deep in the first place. It also helps to deflect all (even some warranted) blame onto the Feds/Trump, especially when the government at the federal level has been so inept.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  16. #1786

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Everything should be considered. We have a very poor understanding of what is going on, which is a travesty given the stakes for everyone.
    Completely agree. Where we disagree is how to go forward until we have a much better idea of what the real data is and how to go forward. I understand your position and know it has nuisances. I feel like the economic benefits do not out weight the risk. But the reality is I just don’t know because the data seems to change so insights are harder to rely upon. The scientific post mortem on this disease will be fascinating.
    A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life. - Mohammad Ali

  17. #1787

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    One other interesting observation is the praise and accolades that Cuomo is getting for his work as governor in NY. It's odd that people are heaping tons of praise on him when his state was woefully unprepared for anything like this and, as late as March 3, politicians in that state were still telling people to ignore the virus and go out and have fun. I guess it's natural for people to rally around a politician when they are trying to dig everyone out of hole, but it seems like he's mostly to blame for the hole being so deep in the first place. It also helps to deflect all (even some warranted) blame onto the Feds/Trump, especially when the government at the federal level has been so inept.
    No governor had done a sterling job. Some have been much better than others. The bar is actually low; protect your citizens and be resolute. IMO, the west coast governors have been pretty solid.

  18. #1788

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    No governor had done a sterling job. Some have been much better than others. The bar is actually low; protect your citizens and be resolute. IMO, the west coast governors have been pretty solid.
    I mentioned ealier in this thread that cuomo is benefiting from selective memory. He has grabbed the reigns and appears to be doing what a governor should but he was not prepared and was downplaying the threat every bit as much as trump in early March. He came around about a week earlier than trump did so now he gets to blame the feds for everything. Funny thing is Cuomo's personality is a lot like Trump: a NY bully that gets places by imposing his will even when experts advise otherwise. But he is more polished than trump, and obviously has a pragmatic side and appears to be a decent administrator. Since his about face he has done a pretty good job. But he should not escape blame in the lessons learned when this is over (even though he will).

    I am no Gavin Newsom fan but I have been pretty impressed with him throughout the crisis. It will be interesting to see how long he tries to keep the whole state on lockdown if their numbers remain relatively low.

  19. #1789
    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJF View Post
    Completely agree. Where we disagree is how to go forward until we have a much better idea of what the real data is and how to go forward. I understand your position and know it has nuisances. I feel like the economic benefits do not out weight the risk. But the reality is I just don’t know because the data seems to change so insights are harder to rely upon. The scientific post mortem on this disease will be fascinating.
    My position is simply that there needs to be a full-blown consideration of all the interests and tradeoffs. That hasn't occurred.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

  20. #1790

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    My position is simply that there needs to be a full-blown consideration of all the interests and tradeoffs. That hasn't occurred.
    Stated that way, I agree. But I’m a dolt. What do I know?
    A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life. - Mohammad Ali

  21. #1791
    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJF View Post
    Stated that way, I agree. But I’m a dolt. What do I know?
    It’s just a turn of phrase. I didn’t mean it. Sorry.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

  22. #1792
    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    More support fort the Stanford doctors’ position that the death rate may be lower than the flu.

    Scientists are calling for urgent studies to determine the proportion of people with coronavirus who show no, or delayed, symptoms amid concern that the number of silent carriers may be greater than previously thought.

    Iceland, which says it’s tested a higher proportion of inhabitants than any other country, found that about half those who tested positive have no symptoms of Covid-19, Thorolfur Gudnason, the nation’s chief epidemiologist, told BuzzFeed News. As many as a third of the people who test positive show delayed symptoms or none at all, the South China Morning Post reported Sunday, citing classified data from the Chinese government.
    In contrast, other countries are only testing patients with serious symptoms, and even then it’s hard to get a test.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...m-scmp-reports
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

  23. #1793

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    More support fort the Stanford doctors’ position that the death rate may be lower than the flu.



    In contrast, other countries are only testing patients with serious symptoms, and even then it’s hard to get a test.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...m-scmp-reports
    A report by a joint WHO-China mission last month described such infections as “relatively rare” and not appearing to be major drivers of transmission.
    Case closed. I feel much better.

  24. #1794
    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omaha 680 View Post
    Case closed. I feel much better.
    The WHO and China aren't reliable or competent? We've been following their program.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

  25. #1795
    Striving for mediocrity Art Vandelay's Avatar
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    Now that Gaga’s in, I’m going to start take this seriously.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  26. #1796

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    It’s just a turn of phrase. I didn’t mean it. Sorry.
    I’m just teasing you and I wasn’t offended. No need to apologize. And for the record, my wife and kids agree with your assessment.
    A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life. - Mohammad Ali

  27. #1797
    𐐐𐐄𐐢𐐆𐐤𐐝 𐐓𐐅 𐐜 𐐢𐐃𐐡𐐔 Uncle Ted's Avatar
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    Alright folks... it is time to break out the 3D printer and build ourselves a ventilator. This one has a proven track record:

    Medtronic Publishes Design Specs for Ventilator to Combat Coronavirus
    Company says other firms can pursue rapid manufacturing of critically needed product

    PLC said it would publicly share the design specifications for a ventilator product to allow other companies to explore producing it rapidly to help meet demand driven by the new coronavirus.

    The company posted online the design documents, service manuals and other information for its Puritan Bennett 560, which is sold in 35 countries. The company plans to post software code and other information shortly.
    [...]
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/medtron...us-11585572382
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  28. #1798

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    The WHO and China aren't reliable or competent? We've been following their program.
    I was being sarcastic. It was WHO believing chinese government assurances that there was no human to human transmission that allowed this to go global. I have no reason to believe them now when they say asymptomatic transmission is rare.

  29. #1799
    Social Distance Warrior swampfrog's Avatar
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    So if you were to gather together a set of economists across the US in positions throughout the top-rated universities, what would they say about the lockdown?

    http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/po...vid-19-crisis/

  30. #1800
    Corporate lackey for Jesus Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampfrog View Post
    So if you were to gather together a set of economists across the US in positions throughout the top-rated universities, what would they say about the lockdown?

    http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/po...vid-19-crisis/
    Very interesting. Can we put to rest the over-simplistic economy vs lives dichotomy?

    I am sure SU will think of a way to discredit these folks.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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