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  • #61
    Originally posted by falafel View Post
    Rubin and Ed.
    I didn't know the history of the BK Andy Warhol film that turned into a commercial. Kinda cool.

    https://adage.com/article/cmo-strate...owl-ad/316498/
    Dyslexics are teople poo...

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Donuthole View Post
      You know what I saw? An entire pub filled with city dwellers in the bluest city in a blue state drinking Bud Light, Coors Light, and Miller Lite. Sure, there were a few "connoisseurs" drinking IPAs or craft beers and micorbrews, but for the most part, these suburban folks were concerned with ingesting as much beer as possible while trying to minimize their calories and financial outlay. Here's what they were not concerned with: the well-being of Big Corn, farmers, or anyone employed through a derivative of those industries. But of the 20 people at my table, 3 of them drive hybrid cars, two drive electric cars, and probably about 70% of them have solar panels on their houses.
      I don't have time for this, but I'll make it up somewhere. I can't leave this discussion without pointing out that, while it's cute that you think an anecdotal sample proves your point, all you proved is that you hang out with people who are more interested in virtue signaling than math. Perhaps you fit into that category as well, if you think that solar panel owning, hybrid car driving professionals drink more beer than the lower income, blue collar demographic whom you eschew associating with - until they show a willingness to pay you.

      Of the eleven states that drink the most beer per capita, 8 of them are in those empty states you think are so unimportant. The other three are in New England, which is kind of a Mecca of craft brew. Marketers don't go after the love or hate groups, they go for the undecideds. Of the undecideds, the group who are at this point indifferent between Coors and Bud, I will almost guarantee that more care about taste and price than corn syrup and C02.

      On top of all of that, calories are calories, and using corn syrup as a boogeyman to the paradoxical health-conscious beer drinker is just dumb. Oh, and there's no such thing as Big Corn.

      Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
      That is great. The poor corn lobby.
      Originally posted by Moliere View Post
      Corn farmers can go to hell and take their crappy ethanol with them.
      I'm certainly no fan of the ethanol mandate, but you're pinning the 'bad guy' tail on the wrong donkey. Ethanol was a political ploy, pushed through by politicians trying to capitalize (no pun intended) on the peak oil scare to help out voters in their districts. The corn lobby saw a demand, and thus price, increase coming, so they pushed for it. After an initial price increase from an immediate artificial demand, though, the farmers saw very little benefit.

      Price seeks the cost of production, and with prices quadrupling in three years, technology and efficiency kicked into overdrive to the point that corn yields and ethanol feed byproducts now more than make up for the corn lost to the ethanol mandate. Now, prices are near where they were before the mandate, and lower on real terms, so farmers are back in the same boat, with many of them worse off because they bought land and equipment based on budgets for $4-$5 corn instead of the sub-$4 prices of the last two crops. The Omaha branch of Farm Credit, which covers IA, NE, SD, and WY, has more distressed loans than any time since the 80's. The only winners out of the whole deal were the implement dealers, absentee landlords, and consumers.

      Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
      What do you want to bet that 90% of those corn farmers are against socialism and complain about handouts to illegal immigrants?
      You know this, but there is a huge chasm between advocating beneficial regulation and being a socialist. Many capitalists support government intervention when it serves their purpose. Hypocrisy has never been constrained by economic ideology. You need look no farther than school districts and public hospitals to prove that. Many farmers will tell you that they would be better off if there had never been a subsidy. But once a subsidy is in place, the leveraged part of the capital structure based on the subsidized cash flows creates a huge deflationary effect when the subsidy is eliminated.

      My bigger point of contention is the illegal immigrant comment. Farmers hire a lot of them, and most farmers would be happy to see more workers from south of the border. Based on experience, farmers like them not because they work for less money, but because they are hard workers, dependable, and loyal. I think painting them as racists, if that was your implication, is unfair and inaccurate.

      On a personal note, two of our most beloved employees started as illegals. One got a Reagan green card, and one married a citizen. My position on immigration is clear, and I'm not an outlier among ag producers.

      I don't have any skin in the ethanol game, but I've interacted with a lot of farmers in the Midwest. They are hard working, salt of the earth people who are largely just family farmers trying to make a living.
      sigpic
      "Outlined against a blue, gray
      October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
      Grantland Rice, 1924

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Flystripper View Post
        I didn't know the history of the BK Andy Warhol film that turned into a commercial. Kinda cool.

        https://adage.com/article/cmo-strate...owl-ad/316498/
        That is very cool.
        "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
        "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
        "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Flystripper View Post
          I didn't know the history of the BK Andy Warhol film that turned into a commercial. Kinda cool.

          https://adage.com/article/cmo-strate...owl-ad/316498/
          Nor did I. Thanks.
          "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
          - Goatnapper'96

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by cowboy View Post
            I'm certainly no fan of the ethanol mandate, but you're pinning the 'bad guy' tail on the wrong donkey. Ethanol was a political ploy, pushed through by politicians trying to capitalize (no pun intended) on the peak oil scare to help out voters in their districts. The corn lobby saw a demand, and thus price, increase coming, so they pushed for it. After an initial price increase from an immediate artificial demand, though, the farmers saw very little benefit.
            So the farmer share no blame or responsibility for this because it was the politicians who did it in order to secure the farmers' vote?

            Sorry, but that is a very weak argument.

            Originally posted by cowboy View Post
            Price seeks the cost of production, and with prices quadrupling in three years, technology and efficiency kicked into overdrive to the point that corn yields and ethanol feed byproducts now more than make up for the corn lost to the ethanol mandate. Now, prices are near where they were before the mandate, and lower on real terms, so farmers are back in the same boat, with many of them worse off because they bought land and equipment based on budgets for $4-$5 corn instead of the sub-$4 prices of the last two crops. The Omaha branch of Farm Credit, which covers IA, NE, SD, and WY, has more distressed loans than any time since the 80's. The only winners out of the whole deal were the implement dealers, absentee landlords, and consumers.

            You know this, but there is a huge chasm between advocating beneficial regulation and being a socialist. Many capitalists support government intervention when it serves their purpose. Hypocrisy has never been constrained by economic ideology. You need look no farther than school districts and public hospitals to prove that. Many farmers will tell you that they would be better off if there had never been a subsidy. But once a subsidy is in place, the leveraged part of the capital structure based on the subsidized cash flows creates a huge deflationary effect when the subsidy is eliminated.
            "advocating beneficial regulation". Ha. Clever play on words. How about "quintessential porkbarrel politics". You know - the stuff we mock the democrats for doing.

            We all would be better off had there never been a subsidy.

            Originally posted by cowboy View Post
            My bigger point of contention is the illegal immigrant comment. Farmers hire a lot of them, and most farmers would be happy to see more workers from south of the border. Based on experience, farmers like them not because they work for less money, but because they are hard workers, dependable, and loyal. I think painting them as racists, if that was your implication, is unfair and inaccurate.

            On a personal note, two of our most beloved employees started as illegals. One got a Reagan green card, and one married a citizen. My position on immigration is clear, and I'm not an outlier among ag producers.

            I don't have any skin in the ethanol game, but I've interacted with a lot of farmers in the Midwest. They are hard working, salt of the earth people who are largely just family farmers trying to make a living.
            Please don't try to use the race card here. I was referring to handouts. I interact with lots of farmers, thank you very much, and I know this is something they rant about.

            I love people from the midwest too. That doesn't mean I can't gripe about a stupid government handout that should never have happened.
            "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
            "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
            "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Flystripper View Post
              I didn't know the history of the BK Andy Warhol film that turned into a commercial. Kinda cool.

              https://adage.com/article/cmo-strate...owl-ad/316498/
              That was cool. Thanks.
              "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
              "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
              - SeattleUte

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by cowboy View Post
                I don't have time for this, but I'll make it up somewhere. I can't leave this discussion without pointing out that, while it's cute that you think an anecdotal sample proves your point, all you proved is that you hang out with people who are more interested in virtue signaling than math. Perhaps you fit into that category as well, if you think that solar panel owning, hybrid car driving professionals drink more beer than the lower income, blue collar demographic whom you eschew associating with - until they show a willingness to pay you.

                Of the eleven states that drink the most beer per capita, 8 of them are in those empty states you think are so unimportant. The other three are in New England, which is kind of a Mecca of craft brew. Marketers don't go after the love or hate groups, they go for the undecideds. Of the undecideds, the group who are at this point indifferent between Coors and Bud, I will almost guarantee that more care about taste and price than corn syrup and C02.

                On top of all of that, calories are calories, and using corn syrup as a boogeyman to the paradoxical health-conscious beer drinker is just dumb. Oh, and there's no such thing as Big Corn.
                Yeah, go ahead and flush your per-capita stats down the toilet with your Bud Light. NGAF about per-capita beer consumption. By total volume, none of the top beer consuming states are flyover states. If the entire state of Wyoming stopped drinking beer, if would have less impact on the beer industry than if one half of one percent of beer drinkers in California stopped drinking beer. But go ahead and tell us about how much beer your buddies put down on a regular basis and explain how important they are to the budget beer market.

                Also, nobody is here to debate the actual value of corn syrup vs. cane sugar, so you can burn that straw man. But if you think there aren't millions of beer drinkers who disagree with the premise that "calories are calories," then maybe it's you who needs to get out more. More and more, cheep beer drinkers are urban dwellers, and urban dwellers are the ones who are constantly exposed to fad diets and fad environmental movements, etc. These are the people who may see that Bud Light is made without corn syrup and say "yeah, let's get that instead." And if getting half of one percent of California beer drinkers to switch to Bud Light means losing the market in Wyoming, that's apparently a gamble Budweiser is willing to take.

                Also, please keep taking pot shots at my profession, because your vitriol is amusing, if banal. But it's nothing every lawyer hasn't already heard a million times before.
                Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

                There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock

                Comment


                • #68
                  My alcohol sherpa at work keeps a stash of Coors Light at home. He knows his beers, and I quickly became pretty snobbish under his tutelage. Yet he drinks Coors light at home because of the calories. And, it's just easy to drink. I've noticed more and more people in Oregon going for the lighter stuff. So there's another anecdote from a non-midwest state.
                  "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
                  "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
                  - SeattleUte

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by cowboy View Post
                    I'm certainly no fan of the ethanol mandate, but you're pinning the 'bad guy' tail on the wrong donkey. Ethanol was a political ploy, pushed through by politicians trying to capitalize (no pun intended) on the peak oil scare to help out voters in their districts. The corn lobby saw a demand, and thus price, increase coming, so they pushed for it. After an initial price increase from an immediate artificial demand, though, the farmers saw very little benefit.

                    Price seeks the cost of production, and with prices quadrupling in three years, technology and efficiency kicked into overdrive to the point that corn yields and ethanol feed byproducts now more than make up for the corn lost to the ethanol mandate. Now, prices are near where they were before the mandate, and lower on real terms, so farmers are back in the same boat, with many of them worse off because they bought land and equipment based on budgets for $4-$5 corn instead of the sub-$4 prices of the last two crops. The Omaha branch of Farm Credit, which covers IA, NE, SD, and WY, has more distressed loans than any time since the 80's. The only winners out of the whole deal were the implement dealers, absentee landlords, and consumers.
                    I’m not against the ethanol mandate because of the politics or subsidies or farmers or whatever. I’m against it because it’s a competing product to what my company produces. Why make fake gasoline when you can have the real thing? I mean, gasoline is cheaper to produce so let’s just use it and save everyone’s engines and gas mileage.
                    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                      I’m not against the ethanol mandate because of the politics or subsidies or farmers or whatever. I’m against it because it’s a competing product to what my company produces. Why make fake gasoline when you can have the real thing? I mean, gasoline is cheaper to produce so let’s just use it and save everyone’s engines and gas mileage.
                      You don't care that taxpayers are financing your competitor's inferior product? Interesting.
                      "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                      "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                      "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                        You don't care that taxpayers are financing your competitor's inferior product? Interesting.
                        Some people believe that taxpayers are also financing my company’s product
                        "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                          Some people believe that taxpayers are also financing my company’s product
                          Haha. Touche'.
                          "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                          "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                          "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Reviewing the thread, it's funny that only a small portion of the posts have anything to do with the game. Who cares about beer ingredients? Come on people, what was your favorite punt?

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
                              Reviewing the thread, it's funny that only a small portion of the posts have anything to do with the game. Who cares about beer ingredients? Come on people, what was your favorite punt?
                              I care deeply about beer ingredients.
                              As I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
                              --Kendrick Lamar

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                I disagree that KVN is unlikable. No, he won't be stealing Steve Young's broadcasting gigs anytime soon, but he's always got a smile on his face and is pretty much a Pats legend, having been acquired out of the trash can and promptly winning the Superbowl 2 of the 3 years he's been there- with an admittedly dominant showing in this one.
                                "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

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