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  • Originally posted by Green Monstah View Post
    I don't think Sitake's staff is terribly new and inexperienced anymore. Grimes is a new OC, so I'll concede that, but his position coaches all have several years of experience (with three that have called plays at the FCS or FBS level). I can't think of a defensive coach that I'd call "new and inexperienced."

    One of the frustrating aspects of Kalani's program for folks who want to feel legitimized with a big-time bowl invite immediately is that he's trying to build a culture, and he believes that the end result of that culture will be sustained success.

    Against weaker competition overall, LaVell didn't have an exceptional season his first four years. And really, they didn't hit their full stride until LaVell's 8th year. While the college football landscape is quite different, and there's a solid argument that KS inherited a better situation than LaVell did, I think BYU fans need a little patience.

    The reality is that BYU got lucky with Bronco. In addition, there aren't many people who want this job. Honor code issues, rumored pay struggles (although I think KS is doing just fine), and other institutional disadvantages make is a tough place to hire coaches. KS wants to be here. He wants to build something great, but he wants to do it in a way that doesn't lend itself to immediate success.

    In spite of the ugly ass losses, I find myself supportive of KS.

    I think Kalani can improve as far as his ability to have BYU play more consistently to its ability. Saying that I think the issue is specifically the coaching staff's inability to get the team to play well more frequently and more specifically to play well enough to beat the teams it should 90%+ of the time. That to me is the first hallmark of a good head coach. Win the games you should almost all the time and in time you should be able to improve your talent so that the portion of the college football playing world included in the "teams you should beat" pie also gets bigger.

    So what one earth is this tradeoff you allude to in that Kalani is making a conscious decision to build a long term culture that is an impediment to immediate success? What decisions is he making that will benefit BYU in the future but is mitigating success now?

    The way I see it is that BYU, if it plays well, can play with just about anybody who is not a legitimate top 15 team but seems to really lay some eggs when it should not against teams significantly less talented than BYU. I don't think that inconsistency is the result of any trade off Kalani is making but is the result of his inability to get BYU to play its best as frequent as a good head coach could.

    I agree we should be patient in the hope Kalani can improve and not to see the fruits of decisions he has made/is making that we are on the cusp of seeing which were purposely made with the premeditated understanding we would be more limited in the early years but benefitted more in time. Unless you can point me in the direction of what those decisions were/are.
    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
    -General George S. Patton

    I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
    -DOCTOR Wuap

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
      The problem with Kalani is he is neither good nor bad. He is very much our very own Ron McBride. I am hopeful that he gets better at getting the most out of his team more consistently. Utah lived with McBride for 13 years despite knowing what he was by the mid 90's because of where the program came from when he inherited it and also because BYU's gradual decay the last half of the 90's did not create such a glaring disparity as one sees now between BYU and Utah. I think if Kalani gets to a bowl game this year he will be back for at least another year. My guess is if he wins 7 or 8 he gets extended for more than one year. With the lack of institutional commitment to excellence and the many external impediments to success BYU faces, most of which would still be very formidable even if the BYU had more institutional commitment to excellence in gridiron than I believe it has, giving Kalani as much support and time as BYU can give might be the best approach. I mean after all, Derick Stevenson as an unofficial spokesman for BYU nation, clearly identified that Mendenhall was not a satisfactory head coach, is still behind Kalani and advocates that all of Kalani's woes are due to the administration. I guess he just wants the admin to support Kalani to the level it supported Bronco Mendenhall.

      So put me in the camp who thinks the best approach is to give Kalani at least one more year if he makes a bowl game and a 2 year extension should he squeak out 7 wins and a 3 year extension should he sweep the rest of the regular season.
      Derek Stevenson is an idiot and should be ignored.
      "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
      "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
      "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
        Derek Stevenson is an idiot and should be ignored.
        One of my best mission buddies singlehandedly turned around Stevie's mission experience. I liked Stevie then. Mission hoops games with him and Elder Tad Trevor Bell of Pocatello, Idaho were legendary. Bell went on to become a 1-AA All American free safety at Idaho State and almost made the NFL. He is now a Mission President in training. Stevie became an England Birmingham legend as well and the craziest former AP Kamikazee Cougar in recorded history. I have a sense of loyalty to Stevie- he just needs to return to the gentle mentoring of the Benton, AR Stake President and stop doing stupid things that negatively impact his life. Resigning his duly assumed role as the unofficial spokesman for BYU Nation is probably a good step- I just find the sudden reversal of the source of woes for BYU football so funny because so many of our dimwitted fan base listens to him and other players.
        Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
        -General George S. Patton

        I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
        -DOCTOR Wuap

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Donuthole View Post
          This game raises a lot of questions. Namely, where tf was this innovative playcalling when we had Zach Wilson on the field?
          grimes may have completely or at least partially relieved of playcalling duties with his move to the field and focusing on the O-line.
          I'm like LeBron James.
          -mpfunk

          Comment


          • Originally posted by smokymountainrain View Post
            grimes may have completely or at least partially relieved of playcalling duties with his move to the field and focusing on the O-line.
            I don't know whether the play calling was significantly improved. There were some great play calls, including the first TD and both trick plays. There were also too many 3-and-outs. But the o-line play was definitely improved, which is surprising given the injury situation. Probably the right move to have Grimes on the sideline and ARod in the booth.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Green Monstah View Post
              I don't think Sitake's staff is terribly new and inexperienced anymore. Grimes is a new OC, so I'll concede that, but his position coaches all have several years of experience (with three that have called plays at the FCS or FBS level). I can't think of a defensive coach that I'd call "new and inexperienced."

              One of the frustrating aspects of Kalani's program for folks who want to feel legitimized with a big-time bowl invite immediately is that he's trying to build a culture, and he believes that the end result of that culture will be sustained success.

              Against weaker competition overall, LaVell didn't have an exceptional season his first four years. And really, they didn't hit their full stride until LaVell's 8th year. While the college football landscape is quite different, and there's a solid argument that KS inherited a better situation than LaVell did, I think BYU fans need a little patience.

              The reality is that BYU got lucky with Bronco. In addition, there aren't many people who want this job. Honor code issues, rumored pay struggles (although I think KS is doing just fine), and other institutional disadvantages make is a tough place to hire coaches. KS wants to be here. He wants to build something great, but he wants to do it in a way that doesn't lend itself to immediate success.

              In spite of the ugly ass losses, I find myself supportive of KS.
              This may be the biggest reason why Sitake should/will have a long leash.
              "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
              - Goatnapper'96

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post

                So what one earth is this tradeoff you allude to in that Kalani is making a conscious decision to build a long term culture that is an impediment to immediate success? What decisions is he making that will benefit BYU in the future but is mitigating success now?
                Specifically, I was referencing my assumption that Kalani was letting his coaches do their own coaching. I don't have any knowledge or authority on that, but I think that's what he was doing for both coordinators.

                In addition, I think he's building a culture that is based more on relationships than "accountability." That means a dude like Khyiris Tonga can consistently be overweight and fail to reach his potential, but will still find acceptance. But it also means that other kids who shrivel under negative reinforcement can find the space to choose to be excellent.
                Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

                "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

                Comment


                • Originally posted by smokymountainrain View Post
                  grimes may have completely or at least partially relieved of playcalling duties with his move to the field and focusing on the O-line.
                  He definitely had his playcard out on the sidelines, but I honestly felt like Roderick was calling the plays. Just a hunch.
                  Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

                  "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
                    I think Kalani can improve as far as his ability to have BYU play more consistently to its ability. Saying that I think the issue is specifically the coaching staff's inability to get the team to play well more frequently and more specifically to play well enough to beat the teams it should 90%+ of the time. That to me is the first hallmark of a good head coach. Win the games you should almost all the time and in time you should be able to improve your talent so that the portion of the college football playing world included in the "teams you should beat" pie also gets bigger.

                    So what one earth is this tradeoff you allude to in that Kalani is making a conscious decision to build a long term culture that is an impediment to immediate success? What decisions is he making that will benefit BYU in the future but is mitigating success now?

                    The way I see it is that BYU, if it plays well, can play with just about anybody who is not a legitimate top 15 team but seems to really lay some eggs when it should not against teams significantly less talented than BYU. I don't think that inconsistency is the result of any trade off Kalani is making but is the result of his inability to get BYU to play its best as frequent as a good head coach could.

                    I agree we should be patient in the hope Kalani can improve and not to see the fruits of decisions he has made/is making that we are on the cusp of seeing which were purposely made with the premeditated understanding we would be more limited in the early years but benefitted more in time. Unless you can point me in the direction of what those decisions were/are.
                    I hope we win out so Kalani can get some leverage to demand changes from the administration. I know a lot of people think the problem is dollars, but I think there are enough dollars committed to the program. Sure, more money would be nice. But we have never been a top-dollar program and never will be. We do have great facilities and have rarely lost good coaches due to dollars (Bronco being the rare exception.) The problem I have heard is academics. Bronco had academic exceptions to have a certain number of players in the program even if they didn't meet every pre-requisite to get into BYU. Kalani started with fewer exceptions than Bronco and has lost 2 every year. Now he has zero. He knew that would happen when he took the job. But it's a problem and he needs to get back the flexibility that Bronco had. Perfect example is the Ty'son Williams situation. It was a joke what they had to go through to get him in. Kalani shouldn't have to waste his time fighting to get a talent like Ty'son into BYU.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by wapiti View Post
                      I hope we win out so Kalani can get some leverage to demand changes from the administration. I know a lot of people think the problem is dollars, but I think there are enough dollars committed to the program. Sure, more money would be nice. But we have never been a top-dollar program and never will be. We do have great facilities and have rarely lost good coaches due to dollars (Bronco being the rare exception.) The problem I have heard is academics. Bronco had academic exceptions to have a certain number of players in the program even if they didn't meet every pre-requisite to get into BYU. Kalani started with fewer exceptions than Bronco and has lost 2 every year. Now he has zero. He knew that would happen when he took the job. But it's a problem and he needs to get back the flexibility that Bronco had. Perfect example is the Ty'son Williams situation. It was a joke what they had to go through to get him in. Kalani shouldn't have to waste his time fighting to get a talent like Ty'son into BYU.
                      Not to worry, Stevie's got this!

                      In all honesty I agree. I wish he had 85 total exceptions at his disposal. I think a committee of BYU'71 and myself can handle all the approvals if needed.
                      Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
                      -General George S. Patton

                      I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
                      -DOCTOR Wuap

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
                        The problem with Kalani is he is neither good nor bad. He is very much our very own Ron McBride. I am hopeful that he gets better at getting the most out of his team more consistently. Utah lived with McBride for 13 years despite knowing what he was by the mid 90's because of where the program came from when he inherited it and also because BYU's gradual decay the last half of the 90's did not create such a glaring disparity as one sees now between BYU and Utah. I think if Kalani gets to a bowl game this year he will be back for at least another year. My guess is if he wins 7 or 8 he gets extended for more than one year. With the lack of institutional commitment to excellence and the many external impediments to success BYU faces, most of which would still be very formidable even if the BYU had more institutional commitment to excellence in gridiron than I believe it has, giving Kalani as much support and time as BYU can give might be the best approach. I mean after all, Derick Stevenson as an unofficial spokesman for BYU nation, clearly identified that Mendenhall was not a satisfactory head coach, is still behind Kalani and advocates that all of Kalani's woes are due to the administration. I guess he just wants the admin to support Kalani to the level it supported Bronco Mendenhall.

                        So put me in the camp who thinks the best approach is to give Kalani at least one more year if he makes a bowl game and a 2 year extension should he squeak out 7 wins and a 3 year extension should he sweep the rest of the regular season.
                        Ron McBride is consistently underrated as a coach. Sitake has a long way to go to be the quality of McBride.
                        As I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
                        --Kendrick Lamar

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
                          Ron McBride is consistently underrated as a coach. Sitake has a long way to go to be the quality of McBride.
                          It is much easier to go from piss poor to above average than it is to go from above average to good.
                          Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
                          -General George S. Patton

                          I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
                          -DOCTOR Wuap

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
                            It is much easier to go from piss poor to above average than it is to go from above average to good.
                            McBride took a program with basically no support and build it from the ground up. He took a joke of a program and took it to good, while in the shadow of a legendary coach.

                            Sitake has taken a good program and made it below average. It isn't that he has only made it a little better, he has made it worse. McBride is a good coach. He deserves a hell of a lot more recognition than he gets.
                            As I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
                            --Kendrick Lamar

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
                              McBride took a program with basically no support and build it from the ground up. He took a joke of a program and took it to good, while in the shadow of a legendary coach.

                              Sitake has taken a good program and made it below average. It isn't that he has only made it a little better, he has made it worse. McBride is a good coach. He deserves a hell of a lot more recognition than he gets.
                              Love you funk and glad you’re here posting in general (sincerely) but I suggest you take your butt hurt feelings about a sideways reference to McBride to some group of red clad Neanderthals who care. Our Neanderthals don’t care.
                              PLesa excuse the tpyos.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by creekster View Post
                                Love you funk and glad you’re here posting in general (sincerely) but I suggest you take your butt hurt feelings about a sideways reference to McBride to some group of red clad Neanderthals who care. Our Neanderthals don’t care.
                                lol you love funk.

                                Comment

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