The official diet and nutrition thread

[Lost Student]

When I read this I thought a 96 hour fast is looney but then my wife bought one of Dr. Fung's books and I'm convinced that extended fasting can be beneficial. Fung claims that benefits of an extended fast include (in addition to even lower insulin levels, weight loss, and autophagy) increased adrenalin and HGH levels.

I had been doing intermittent fasting for the last month (18-20 hours between dinners) about four days/ week. I only experienced a little weight loss, probably due to the fact that I would pig out during my feeding periods. I was eating a ton of junk food and justifying it by the fast I completed that day.

So Sunday night, when I normally would have broken my religious fast, I switched from a dry fast to a water fast. That's all I've ingested since, plus a quarter tsp of salt. I'm closing in on 72 hours and I feel surprisingly not hungry. I'm going to go two more days, for a grand total of 120 hours. In theory, I should lose about three pounds of fat. So far, my weight is way down (about 6-8 lbs.) but a lot of that is water.

After I break my fast, I'll return and report.

I was able to make it to last night. I think I was at around 117 hours. Like I posted above, I was very surprised at how not hungry I was most of the time. Hunger comes in waves. Also surprising: after the first day, the feeling of hunger--when it came--did not get any stronger each day. The morning of the fifth day I was thinking about this in the shower--I felt thirsty but I did not even care about eating.

About being thirsty--I probably should not have done this fast by starting with a Fast Sunday fast, because I was dehydrated from that and behind the 8 ball on that front for a couple of days. I don't think I appreciated how much liquids I normally get from milk, fruit, and other stuff that I should have been compensating for each day. I had to try really hard to remember to keep a bottle of water at my desk and on the nightstand. By the third day I think I wasn't dehydrated anymore.

Most of each day I felt good but had low physical energy. It felt like I had completed a heavy workout a couple of hours previously. I also felt more tired in the morning as a result of the worst part of long fasting: my sleep was crappy for nights 3-5. I woke up in the middle of the night each of those nights, and each time I had a harder time getting back to sleep. This never happens to me normally.

Part of the sleep thing resulted from a kind of uneasy, anxious feeling I would get around bedtime. I've read that cortisol goes up over a longer fast. When I was lying down to sleep, I could feel my heart beating a little harder than normal, which also made me more restless. Even today, I still feel my heart beating slightly harder than normal and I still feel a slight hint of that anxiety. I'm assuming that will go away by the end of the day or tomorrow. Cardiac or other Drs.: should I be worried about that? Please let me know ASAP if I could die soon. TIA.

Breaking the fast was awesome. I had some homemade chicken broth and ate spaghetti squash with cubed chicken breast and pesto. It might have been the most delicious meal I ever had. But even a dog turd would have tasted alright at that point.

I weighed myself yesterday morning. I was down about 9 pounds from a week prior. Over the next week I expect to go back up 5 or 6 lbs. I didn't do this solely for weight loss but for the autophagy (not sure I totally buy this aspect) and insulin reduction benefits. But losing a few pounds is nice and a good headstart so I can look good for the MILF's [sic] at the Spanish Fork neighborhood pool this summer!

I don't think I'll do a fast this long for a while. The sleep quality was so bad for the last two nights that I don't want to repeat it soon. I might make this a annual thing, though. I do plan on doing regular 36 hours fasts when I'm not doing the 18-20 hours fasts. Maybe I'll copy Katy and do a 96 hour fast every once in a while.

[PaloAltoCougar]

I had my annual physical today (fine, thanks) and the doc mentioned three things pertinent to this thread. First, he approved my stopping the baby aspirin thing--as Cardiac and others have noted, taking one daily is a good idea only if you've already had a stroke or cardiac event. Two, with my good cholesterol numbers, eating eggs 3-4 times a week is no problem. Finally, he noted I had dropped a few (just five or so) pounds and wondered why. When I told him about how The Obesity Code (a nod to the Dude for that one) had changed my eating habits a bit, he smiled broadly and said he loved the book and wished all his patients would read it, something to the effect of, "Most diet books are crap, but that one has loads of good information and truly beneficial advice."

Thanks, CS!

[CardiacCoug]

I was able to make it to last night. I think I was at around 117 hours. Like I posted above, I was very surprised at how not hungry I was most of the time. Hunger comes in waves. Also surprising: after the first day, the feeling of hunger--when it came--did not get any stronger each day. The morning of the fifth day I was thinking about this in the shower--I felt thirsty but I did not even care about eating.

About being thirsty--I probably should not have done this fast by starting with a Fast Sunday fast, because I was dehydrated from that and behind the 8 ball on that front for a couple of days. I don't think I appreciated how much liquids I normally get from milk, fruit, and other stuff that I should have been compensating for each day. I had to try really hard to remember to keep a bottle of water at my desk and on the nightstand. By the third day I think I wasn't dehydrated anymore.

Most of each day I felt good but had low physical energy. It felt like I had completed a heavy workout a couple of hours previously. I also felt more tired in the morning as a result of the worst part of long fasting: my sleep was crappy for nights 3-5. I woke up in the middle of the night each of those nights, and each time I had a harder time getting back to sleep. This never happens to me normally.

Part of the sleep thing resulted from a kind of uneasy, anxious feeling I would get around bedtime. I've read that cortisol goes up over a longer fast. When I was lying down to sleep, I could feel my heart beating a little harder than normal, which also made me more restless. Even today, I still feel my heart beating slightly harder than normal and I still feel a slight hint of that anxiety. I'm assuming that will go away by the end of the day or tomorrow. Cardiac or other Drs.: should I be worried about that? Please let me know ASAP if I could die soon. TIA.

Breaking the fast was awesome. I had some homemade chicken broth and ate spaghetti squash with cubed chicken breast and pesto. It might have been the most delicious meal I ever had. But even a dog turd would have tasted alright at that point.

I weighed myself yesterday morning. I was down about 9 pounds from a week prior. Over the next week I expect to go back up 5 or 6 lbs. I didn't do this solely for weight loss but for the autophagy (not sure I totally buy this aspect) and insulin reduction benefits. But losing a few pounds is nice and a good headstart so I can look good for the MILF's [sic] at the Spanish Fork neighborhood pool this summer!

I don't think I'll do a fast this long for a while. The sleep quality was so bad for the last two nights that I don't want to repeat it soon. I might make this a annual thing, though. I do plan on doing regular 36 hours fasts when I'm not doing the 18-20 hours fasts. Maybe I'll copy Katy and do a 96 hour fast every once in a while.

Interesting report.

If you just feel your heart beating stronger than usual but it’s a normal heart rate and not irregular then probably nothing to worry about. I hear that a lot from patients in clinic and consider that an anxiety type of sensation, like you thought.

[Lost Student]

Interesting report.

If you just feel your heart beating stronger than usual but it’s a normal heart rate and not irregular then probably nothing to worry about. I hear that a lot from patients in clinic and consider that an anxiety type of sensation, like you thought.

Good to hear, thanks. I'm back to normal now. I read somewhere that having a crappy sleep schedule when leading up to a prolonged fast can exacerbate the cortisol situation, which could explain my issue.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I have become aware lately of more and more people my age with terrible health problems. People that can no longer live any kind of an active lifestyle, travel, etc. For example, I have a close acquaintance who is one year younger than me that has taken early retirement and gone on disability because her health is so bad (obesity, type-2 diabetes, etc.) that she can barely walk across the room. She had a good career in a tech industry. Anyway, in almost all of these cases the health problems are a result of really poor lifestyles. I don't have anything profound to say other than those daily choices you make on diet and exercise and the habits you develop are going to make a huge difference on your quality of life when you are older.

[PaloAltoCougar]

I have become aware lately of more and more people my age with terrible health problems. People that can no longer live any kind of an active lifestyle, travel, etc. For example, I have a close acquaintance who is one year younger than me that has taken early retirement and gone on disability because her health is so bad (obesity, type-2 diabetes, etc.) that she can barely walk across the room. She had a good career in a tech industry. Anyway, in almost all of these cases the health problems are a result of really poor lifestyles. I don't have anything profound to say other than those daily choices you make on diet and exercise and the habits you develop are going to make a huge difference on your quality of life when you are older.

Amen. Chance and genetics play a significant role, of course, but there's still so much one can do to make the post-retirement years a playground rather than heaven's waiting room. We're grateful for our good fortune thus far, but eating reasonably well (putting aside my ice cream and chocolate chip cookie addictions) and daily exercise enable us to go places and do things many of our contemporaries can't.

[CardiacCoug]

I have become aware lately of more and more people my age with terrible health problems. People that can no longer live any kind of an active lifestyle, travel, etc. For example, I have a close acquaintance who is one year younger than me that has taken early retirement and gone on disability because her health is so bad (obesity, type-2 diabetes, etc.) that she can barely walk across the room. She had a good career in a tech industry. Anyway, in almost all of these cases the health problems are a result of really poor lifestyles. I don't have anything profound to say other than those daily choices you make on diet and exercise and the habits you develop are going to make a huge difference on your quality of life when you are older.

This is true I guess but taking care of hundreds of obese, diabetic patients makes me wonder whether or not the majority of people are even capable of making good “lifestyle choices”.

Even though it seems self-evident to me that type 2 diabetes and its complications are simply related to people choosing to eat too much and move around too little, you may know that monozygotic twins have somewhere between 75% and 96% concordance for type 2 diabetes.

As a person who just forgets to eat meals all the time and can easily get by on 1000 calories and not even feel hungry I sometimes wonder if we even have free will? It almost seems like people choose to be thin and healthy or fat and diabetic the same way my dog chooses to chase a ball when I throw it (he always chases it!)

[creekster]

I sometimes wonder if we even have free will? It almost seems like people choose to be thin and healthy or fat and diabetic the same way my dog chooses to chase a ball when I throw it (he always chases it!)

That's a very good question. Every time I have really considered I end up deciding i prefer not to think about it too much. I probably had no choice but to reach that conclusion.

As a corollary to Lebowski's earlier point: Never take the present or the future for granted. My brother in law, two years older than me and in generally good shape and health, got up last night to go to the bathroom and suddenly passed away. We don't know why, exactly, yet, but it is probably a stroke or heart attack or some such. No one saw it coming. He and his wife were happy and had plans. And now its all done. Hug your kids, your spouse or your friends every chance you get.

[Joe Public]

I'm very sorry to hear that, creekster.

[BigPiney]

That's a very good question. Every time I have really considered I end up deciding i prefer not to think about it too much. I probably had no choice but to reach that conclusion.

As a corollary to Lebowski's earlier point: Never take the present or the future for granted. My brother in law, two years older than me and in generally good shape and health, got up last night to go to the bathroom and suddenly passed away. We don't know why, exactly, yet, but it is probably a stroke or heart attack or some such. No one saw it coming. He and his wife were happy and had plans. And now its all done. Hug your kids, your spouse or your friends every chance you get.

Dang, I am so sorry to hear that. That is one of my biggest fears. Being in good health and then dying before I can do all the fun stuff I have planned.

[Scott R Nelson]

On a separate point....

My wife made my favorite cookies today. I ate at least a dozen of them while they were still fresh. It's like I couldn't help myself.

"I'll start the diet tomorrow."

[PaloAltoCougar]

Horrible story, creek. Very sorry for you and your BIL's family.

[Bo Diddley]

Sorry to hear that, Creek. It's a fear of mine as well. I live an active lifestyle, but I really take little thought towards healthy eating.

[Jeff Lebowski]

This is true I guess but taking care of hundreds of obese, diabetic patients makes me wonder whether or not the majority of people are even capable of making good “lifestyle choices”.

Even though it seems self-evident to me that type 2 diabetes and its complications are simply related to people choosing to eat too much and move around too little, you may know that monozygotic twins have somewhere between 75% and 96% concordance for type 2 diabetes.

As a person who just forgets to eat meals all the time and can easily get by on 1000 calories and not even feel hungry I sometimes wonder if we even have free will? It almost seems like people choose to be thin and healthy or fat and diabetic the same way my dog chooses to chase a ball when I throw it (he always chases it!)

Ha. You sound like a Calvinist.

I think genetics play a role, but it is limited. Exhibit A is a massive increase in obesity and the subsequent health complications in our population over the last few decades. Genetics aren't changing. I guess you could argue that some people not wired to buck societal trends in diet.

[bluegoose]

Sorry to hear that creekster. Hoping his wife and kids (if he had any) are able to find some comfort as they try to sort things out.