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Thread: Time Fo No Mo Holmoe

  1. #1

    Default Time Fo No Mo Holmoe

    Ive appreciated Tom. I think hes a nice guy. I think hes done his best. Hes been good interacting with the fans. But the two major sports at BYU are in as bad of a spot as I can remember in my lifetime. His fault or not, I think changes need to happen. And soon. And I think it may need to start at the top.

    Does BYU move on? If so, who is a realistic candidate?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzle View Post
    I’ve appreciated Tom. I think he’s a nice guy. I think he’s done his best. He’s been good interacting with the fans. But the two major sports at BYU are in as bad of a spot as I can remember in my lifetime. His fault or not, I think changes need to happen. And soon. And I think it may need to start at the top.

    Does BYU move on? If so, who is a realistic candidate?
    Not Chad Lewis.
    "Nobody listens to Turtle."
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  3. #3

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    The Montana AD is a BYU graduate.
    https://gogriz.com/staff.aspx?staff=1

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    Not Chad Lewis.
    What about his make BYU great again brother?

  5. #5

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    How about going the business ceo route instead of athletics route? David Neeleman! It'll be great!
    Last edited by LiveCoug; 10-28-2018 at 09:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCcoug View Post
    The Montana AD is a BYU graduate.
    https://gogriz.com/staff.aspx?staff=1
    I actually like his resume quite a bit. He should be on the list.
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    I don’t know if Tom needs to go but I can’t make sense of how the athletic department operates. Are the sports supposed to be businesses run by CEOs and the ADs are like a private equity group that adds value and support or are they departments within a single org and Tom is the CEO?

  8. #8

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    Holmoe has done a good job with a bad situation, I would be happy if he was fired. The things holding byu back are out of his control.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzle View Post
    I’ve appreciated Tom. I think he’s a nice guy. I think he’s done his best. He’s been good interacting with the fans. But the two major sports at BYU are in as bad of a spot as I can remember in my lifetime. His fault or not, I think changes need to happen. And soon. And I think it may need to start at the top.

    Does BYU move on? If so, who is a realistic candidate?
    My perspective is that in order to really get BYU to a level that most of us want, it's going to require an AD that's not afraid to butt heads with Church HQ and have the swag to come out on top in that battle. Rondo was really close to being that guy, but he gave up after losing too many battles. Since then, I think we've essentially had yes men that have done the best they can without shaking the boat. It might be time for a guy that's willing to shake the boat. But then again, realistically, Church HQ is doing stuff like changing ldschurchnews.com to thechurchnews.com, so I'm not sure anyone's going to go up against that and win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzle View Post
    Ive appreciated Tom. I think hes a nice guy. I think hes done his best. Hes been good interacting with the fans. But the two major sports at BYU are in as bad of a spot as I can remember in my lifetime. His fault or not, I think changes need to happen. And soon. And I think it may need to start at the top.

    Does BYU move on? If so, who is a realistic candidate?
    You don't remember basketball being in a worse spot than it is now? When I was attending, I remember being excited about finally getting an NIT bid.
    "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    My perspective is that in order to really get BYU to a level that most of us want, it's going to require an AD that's not afraid to butt heads with Church HQ and have the swag to come out on top in that battle. Rondo was really close to being that guy, but he gave up after losing too many battles. Since then, I think we've essentially had yes men that have done the best they can without shaking the boat. It might be time for a guy that's willing to shake the boat. But then again, realistically, Church HQ is doing stuff like changing ldschurchnews.com to thechurchnews.com, so I'm not sure anyone's going to go up against that and win.
    What specific things did Rondo push for and get denied?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCcoug View Post
    What specific things did Rondo push for and get denied?
    Managing title 9 by simply adding womens sports and not cutting mens programs. That is what I know of. I am sure there are more.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    My perspective is that in order to really get BYU to a level that most of us want, it's going to require an AD that's not afraid to butt heads with Church HQ and have the swag to come out on top in that battle. Rondo was really close to being that guy, but he gave up after losing too many battles. Since then, I think we've essentially had yes men that have done the best they can without shaking the boat. It might be time for a guy that's willing to shake the boat. But then again, realistically, Church HQ is doing stuff like changing ldschurchnews.com to thechurchnews.com, so I'm not sure anyone's going to go up against that and win.
    Lol. Good one Jay.
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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    Holmoe has done a good job with a bad situation, I would be happy if he was fired. The things holding byu back are out of his control.
    this is true.
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    Holmoe has done a good job with a bad situation, I would be happy if he was fired. The things holding byu back are out of his control.
    Agree. But it might be time to have someone in the job with a stronger personality who can give warning of what's going to happen to the program in 20 years if they continue down this path. Probably not a big chance that will do anything. When your boss's boss's boss is getting instructions straight from Jesus and the current instructions from Jesus are to reverse a successful, multi-decade branding strategy, I doubt you're going to get very far pushing the PR benefits of BYU football for the church.

  16. #16
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    Agree. But it might be time to have someone in the job with a stronger personality who can give warning of what's going to happen to the program in 20 years if they continue down this path. Probably not a big chance that will do anything. When your boss's boss's boss is getting instructions straight from Jesus and the current instructions from Jesus are to reverse a successful, multi-decade branding strategy, I doubt you're going to get very far pushing the PR benefits of BYU football for the church.
    Wow. You aren't going to let this one go, are you?
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Wow. You aren't going to let this one go, are you?
    I haven't lost faith in my religion. But it appears we're in an administration where decisions are made at the very top (ie a level above the prophet) without a lot of input from PR professionals, business executives, etc. And with the other changes they're making to MoTab and even stuff like no more pageants, I don't think it's the right time for a BYU AD to stick his neck out and demand change.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    I haven't lost faith in my religion. But it appears we're in an administration where decisions are made at the very top (ie a level above the prophet) without a lot of input from PR professionals, business executives, etc. And with the other changes they're making to MoTab and even stuff like no more pageants, I don't think it's the right time for a BYU AD to stick his neck out and demand change.
    I agree with this sentiment. Whatever one's opinions on the changes there is clearly a more focussed perspective on the essential basics and my guess is the powers to be would not see BYU sports as part of those essential basics.
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    I agree with this sentiment. Whatever one's opinions on the changes there is clearly a more focussed perspective on the essential basics and my guess is the powers to be would not see BYU sports as part of those essential basics.
    keep going funk is close
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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    I agree with this sentiment. Whatever one's opinions on the changes there is clearly a more focussed perspective on the essential basics and my guess is the powers to be would not see BYU sports as part of those essential basics.
    That's how I see it as well. I question how high of a priority it is for church leadership. It is what it is.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    I agree with this sentiment. Whatever one's opinions on the changes there is clearly a more focussed perspective on the essential basics and my guess is the powers to be would not see BYU sports as part of those essential basics.
    I'm callling it: Two hour practice sessions. Anything more would be a burden on the players' family. If the player doesn't have a spouse, he can use the remaining time to find one and get busy with his eternal duties.
    Last edited by LVAllen; 10-29-2018 at 10:22 AM.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzle View Post
    I’ve appreciated Tom. I think he’s a nice guy. I think he’s done his best. He’s been good interacting with the fans. But the two major sports at BYU are in as bad of a spot as I can remember in my lifetime. His fault or not, I think changes need to happen. And soon. And I think it may need to start at the top.

    Does BYU move on? If so, who is a realistic candidate?
    What has Holmoe done as far as internal infrastructure to help BYU to better compete? I know early on he got that Coaches Circle thing going so that the HC would have more cash to compensate assistants, he also got the hoops facility up and running. But I wonder what BYU is doing to put itself in a position to compete.

    Here is my issues with Holmoe:

    1.) I don't think he did enough to keep Mendenhall around. My opinion on Mendenhall was that he was the lightning rod for the reality of BYU's football situation - most of the challenges of which are outside of BYU's control IMO. Now Mendenhall created that to some extent - but, Mendenhall was a very good coach that was keeping BYU as competitive as the internal and external circumstances would allow. I think Holmoe was unable to keep Mendenhall happy, which given the whining from vocal members of the fanbase and Bronco's indifference or flat out hostility to inner thigh massaging might have been impossible to avoid - but my instincts are when Bronco told Tom he was thinking about leaving Tom did not fight to keep Bronco. When it comes to Kalani I don't really want to see him fired after year 3 - despite the fact he isn't doing a good job IMO, until BYU commits itself to building an infrastructure meant to compete at the level it claims it wants to compete at. Part of that might be recognizing and admitting it doesn't want to compete at a national level and returning to the MWC or AAC or something. I would like for BYU to keep Kalani around while it commits itself to building the resources to support the next coach consistent with the expectations. Right now there is a huge gap between program potential and expectations, IMO.

    2.) I am wondering if he is putting the pressure on Dave Rose. The turnover/losing kids before their eligibility is exhausted in the program has been a killer. I believe that not all of these departures were unavoidable.

    At the end I am interested in what Holmoe is doing to make BYU a place great coaches want to be and stay, I guess I should start by asking what sort of leeway does Tom have to create that type of environment - in the end even if obscene salaries were financed by donations would the LDS Church still allow that to be paid?
    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
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    I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    I haven't lost faith in my religion. But it appears we're in an administration where decisions are made at the very top (ie a level above the prophet) without a lot of input from PR professionals, business executives, etc. And with the other changes they're making to MoTab and even stuff like no more pageants, I don't think it's the right time for a BYU AD to stick his neck out and demand change.
    The changes that need to be made will not happen and any BYU AD that would even suggest them would be immediately fired.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    keep going funk is close
    Dyslexics are teople poo...

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    The changes that need to be made will not happen and any BYU AD that would even suggest them would be immediately fired.
    that might be a little dramatic. not sure an AD would be fired simply for the suggestion
    I'm like LeBron James.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    What has Holmoe done as far as internal infrastructure to help BYU to better compete? I know early on he got that Coaches Circle thing going so that the HC would have more cash to compensate assistants, he also got the hoops facility up and running. But I wonder what BYU is doing to put itself in a position to compete.

    Here is my issues with Holmoe:

    1.) I don't think he did enough to keep Mendenhall around. My opinion on Mendenhall was that he was the lightning rod for the reality of BYU's football situation - most of the challenges of which are outside of BYU's control IMO. Now Mendenhall created that to some extent - but, Mendenhall was a very good coach that was keeping BYU as competitive as the internal and external circumstances would allow. I think Holmoe was unable to keep Mendenhall happy, which given the whining from vocal members of the fanbase and Bronco's indifference or flat out hostility to inner thigh massaging might have been impossible to avoid - but my instincts are when Bronco told Tom he was thinking about leaving Tom did not fight to keep Bronco. When it comes to Kalani I don't really want to see him fired after year 3 - despite the fact he isn't doing a good job IMO, until BYU commits itself to building an infrastructure meant to compete at the level it claims it wants to compete at. Part of that might be recognizing and admitting it doesn't want to compete at a national level and returning to the MWC or AAC or something. I would like for BYU to keep Kalani around while it commits itself to building the resources to support the next coach consistent with the expectations. Right now there is a huge gap between program potential and expectations, IMO.

    2.) I am wondering if he is putting the pressure on Dave Rose. The turnover/losing kids before their eligibility is exhausted in the program has been a killer. I believe that not all of these departures were unavoidable.

    At the end I am interested in what Holmoe is doing to make BYU a place great coaches want to be and stay, I guess I should start by asking what sort of leeway does Tom have to create that type of environment - in the end even if obscene salaries were financed by donations would the LDS Church still allow that to be paid?
    1. part B) Tom didn't do enough to get us into a P5... e.g., He should have offered his first born to Bob Bowlsby for a Big 12 invite. That, and convinced the upper management that BYU needed to sustain the law of the land (you know, number 12) and recognize same sex marriage like everyone else (or at least lied and told the Big 12 they were open to the idea). Maybe we would still have Bronco if BYU was in a P5. Of course, many argued that BYU would be a middle of the road team if we were in a P5. That actually sounds pretty good right now.
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  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    that might be a little dramatic. not sure an AD would be fired simply for the suggestion
    Funk be dramatic w/r/t something that he HATES WITH THE FURY OF 1,000,000,000,000,000 SUNS!!!!? Unheard of!
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  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Student View Post
    Funk be dramatic w/r/t something that he HATES WITH THE FURY OF 1,000,000,000,000,000 SUNS!!!!? Unheard of!
    touche'
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    What has Holmoe done as far as internal infrastructure to help BYU to better compete? I know early on he got that Coaches Circle thing going so that the HC would have more cash to compensate assistants, he also got the hoops facility up and running. But I wonder what BYU is doing to put itself in a position to compete.

    Here is my issues with Holmoe:

    1.) I don't think he did enough to keep Mendenhall around. My opinion on Mendenhall was that he was the lightning rod for the reality of BYU's football situation - most of the challenges of which are outside of BYU's control IMO. Now Mendenhall created that to some extent - but, Mendenhall was a very good coach that was keeping BYU as competitive as the internal and external circumstances would allow. I think Holmoe was unable to keep Mendenhall happy, which given the whining from vocal members of the fanbase and Bronco's indifference or flat out hostility to inner thigh massaging might have been impossible to avoid - but my instincts are when Bronco told Tom he was thinking about leaving Tom did not fight to keep Bronco. When it comes to Kalani I don't really want to see him fired after year 3 - despite the fact he isn't doing a good job IMO, until BYU commits itself to building an infrastructure meant to compete at the level it claims it wants to compete at. Part of that might be recognizing and admitting it doesn't want to compete at a national level and returning to the MWC or AAC or something. I would like for BYU to keep Kalani around while it commits itself to building the resources to support the next coach consistent with the expectations. Right now there is a huge gap between program potential and expectations, IMO.

    2.) I am wondering if he is putting the pressure on Dave Rose. The turnover/losing kids before their eligibility is exhausted in the program has been a killer. I believe that not all of these departures were unavoidable.

    At the end I am interested in what Holmoe is doing to make BYU a place great coaches want to be and stay, I guess I should start by asking what sort of leeway does Tom have to create that type of environment - in the end even if obscene salaries were financed by donations would the LDS Church still allow that to be paid?
    Regarding #1, Bronco made it clear fairly early in his tenure that he was not a long-term coach at BYU. Could Holmoe have gone further to keep him around? Perhaps. In order to say that definitively, I think you have to have access to information to which the general public does not. Even though we've struggled the last two years, there's not a part of me that yearns for Bronco. He plateaued. It was time for both sides to move on. Kalani may not be the guy to help BYU get to the next level, but I don't think Bronco was that guy either.

    Regarding #2, I think it's more likely that Rose thinks his shit don't stink than Holmoe exerting some sort of undue influence. I think this for a few reasons, not the least of which being that Holmoe seems like a very non-confrontational dude. He definitely takes his marching orders from the BOT, but I just don't see him barging into Rose's office and saying, "Get rid of the Chatman kid!"

    On the other hand, I'm still a little perplexed by the Nashif exit, so maybe you're onto something.
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  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Monstah View Post
    Regarding #1, Bronco made it clear fairly early in his tenure that he was not a long-term coach at BYU. Could Holmoe have gone further to keep him around? Perhaps. In order to say that definitively, I think you have to have access to information to which the general public does not. Even though we've struggled the last two years, there's not a part of me that yearns for Bronco. He plateaued. It was time for both sides to move on. Kalani may not be the guy to help BYU get to the next level, but I don't think Bronco was that guy either.

    Regarding #2, I think it's more likely that Rose thinks his shit don't stink than Holmoe exerting some sort of undue influence. I think this for a few reasons, not the least of which being that Holmoe seems like a very non-confrontational dude. He definitely takes his marching orders from the BOT, but I just don't see him barging into Rose's office and saying, "Get rid of the Chatman kid!"

    On the other hand, I'm still a little perplexed by the Nashif exit, so maybe you're onto something.
    Bronco made it clear he was not a long term coach period. It was never just about staying at BYU long term. He didn't want to stay in coaching long term. UVA gave him 15 million reasons why he should put in a few more years. I would suspect now that he is ranked and possibly going to win his division that they will give him an extension with 5 million more reason to keep coaching.
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