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Thread: Two hour church

  1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by ByronMarchant View Post
    1. How many of the 12 new temples are mini-temples?

    2. Did they announce which meetinghouses will be put up for sale yet? Now they can put 4 wards in each meetinghouse. This will save one building for every 3 meetinghouses.

    Some have used the number of new temples as an argument for Church growth. But I think it is important to distinguish between construction of a mini-temple and full-size temples. I hypothesize that the mini-temples are mostly being constructed to try to boost overall temple attendance (by making them proximal to the people), rather than to accommodate existing temple attendance.

    There are 159 temples in the world.

    In contrast, if you assume 3 wards per meetinghouse, there are 10,169 meetinghouses in the world.

    If they put 4 wards into each meetinghouse, this will provide a reduction of 2,542 in the number of necessary meetinghouses.

    If you assume that all of the 10,169 meetinghouses were constructed sometime in the last 40 years, then that's an average rate of 254 meetinghouses constructed per year.

    Assuming no net increase in number of congregations over the next decade, the LDS Church will not need to build a new meetinghouse for a decade. (In other words, President Nelson will be 104 years old when the Church needs to build a new meetinghouse.)

    This makes good financial sense.
    You are forgetting that more temples = more tithing = more money. Temples are revenue generating buildings because you have to pay tithing to enter! Chapels aren't.

    It's about time the church realizes that and starts focusing on revenue generating buildings.

  2. #92
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Can you imagine how much money the church is going to make in a temple in Cape Verde? The GDP per person there is less than $7k
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  3. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    Can you imagine how much money the church is going to make in a temple in Cape Verde? The GDP per person there is less than $7k
    Straight cash homie.

  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzle View Post
    You are forgetting that more temples = more tithing = more money. Temples are revenue generating buildings because you have to pay tithing to enter!
    And that's not even factoring in all the revenue generated off clothing rentals.
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  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    Isn't that pretty much what RMN said? Wasn't that the underlying thrust of his remarks about the purpose for this change? Unlike you, he would add saving ordinances and certain acts of priesthood authority, but in general, isnt that what he was saying?
    I believe you. I didn't see/listen to conference at all, so I will take your word for it. I just heard all about the change from friends and family with little context.
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  6. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    Why do you care about this so much? I confess I didn't read all of your lengthy screed about how you came to leave the church (although I think I am familiar with a lot of it from your prior posts) but it looks like you are definitely 'out.' If so, what is your point here? That you don't think the church is divine and that it is led by men based on fictitious or worldly concerns? OK. Thanks. We get that you think this. Or are you trying to help the rest of us see the light? Because, if so, and speaking only for me, you are wasting your time and becoming a bit repetitive. Do you honestly see yourself as pulling back the curtain on the workings of the church because people here haven't considered it? I guess I can give you the .gif analogy, as the small, annoying yappy dog really does seem to fit.
    Why should I not care?

    I grew up Mormon.

    My whole family is Mormon.

    I spent 2 years in a terrible place because of Mormon.

    I am a big BYU fan that travels to games.

    I read the Deseret News.

    I have an inquiring mind.

    I'm not trying to persuade you of anything. I'm honestly just discussing issues that I think are likely to be relevant. I don't particularly care whether you like it or not. I'm not trying to be popular.

    That there is a business approach toward management in the Church is not necessarily a bad thing. I just think that all of us might underestimate the business aspects of these decisions.

    For example: We don't have all the data, but I'd guess that focus groups and polling indicate that the word "Mormon" is viewed negatively, so the Church is trying to get away from it. Why is the word "Mormon" viewed negatively? Because of history? Or because of things that the Mormon Church has done recently? Or both? And why are they fleeing from the name?
    Last edited by ByronMarchant; 10-08-2018 at 04:52 PM.

  7. #97
    Senior Member BigFatMeanie's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure that the single biggest expense for the church is BYU. Hands down, not even close.

    I love it how Ute fans' tithing subsidizes BYU.

  8. #98
    Senior Member Omaha 680's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    don't forget!
    DH's is probably better, but my uncle tells a funny story from the old live actor days in the Manti temple. There was a certain brother who fancied himself as quite the thespian; he was very dramatic in any part he played but his preferred role was Lucifer. One session while playing Lucifer, he wriggled into the room on his stomach to look more like a serpent.

  9. #99
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByronMarchant View Post
    Why should I not care?

    I grew up Mormon.

    My whole family is Mormon.

    I spent 2 years in a terrible place because of Mormon.

    I am a big BYU fan that travels to games.

    I read the Deseret News.

    I have an inquiring mind.

    I'm not trying to persuade you of anything. I'm honestly just discussing issues that I think are likely to be relevant. I don't particularly care whether you like it or not. I'm not trying to be popular.

    That there is a business approach toward management in the Church is not necessarily a bad thing. I just think that all of us might underestimate the business aspects of these decisions.

    For example: We don't have all the data, but I'd guess that focus groups and polling indicate that the word "Mormon" is viewed negatively, so the Church is trying to get away from it. Why is the word "Mormon" viewed negatively? Because of history? Or because of things that the Mormon Church has done recently? Or both? And why are they fleeing from the name?
    Why is it when you enumerate the possible motivations you never consider the stated reason? Maybe they made the change for the reason they said: because Christ said in the BoM that this is the name that should be used.

    btw, reading the deseret news may be a large part of your problem.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  10. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omaha 680 View Post
    DH's is probably better, but my uncle tells a funny story from the old live actor days in the Manti temple. There was a certain brother who fancied himself as quite the thespian; he was very dramatic in any part he played but his preferred role was Lucifer. One session while playing Lucifer, he wriggled into the room on his stomach to look more like a serpent.
    Um, that one is pretty good!

  11. #101

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    Falafel:

    1. You violate speakeasy rules repeatedly. This is a shitty thing to do.
    2. I don't show up at your damn house.
    3. This is a message board. The first iteration of this community was started precisely because it was a free-speech alternative to cougarboard. There is a big difference between free, open discussion on a message board and showing up at your doorstep against your wishes.
    4. Why is it so offensive to you that I point out potential financial benefits of 2-hour church? The idea that the Church would make decisions based on dollars or diminishing attendance of youth really pisses you off, doesn't it. Because you think God was the one that decided 2-hour church was the thing to do? Is that how you view 2-hour church?

    Tell us why it's so offensive to you that the Church would use focus groups, polls, and dollars to make big decisions.

    You want an echo chamber because that's what makes you comfortable. I would be so miserable living in an echo chamber, but to each his/her own.
    Last edited by ByronMarchant; 10-08-2018 at 06:19 PM.

  12. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omaha 680 View Post
    DH's is probably better, but my uncle tells a funny story from the old live actor days in the Manti temple. There was a certain brother who fancied himself as quite the thespian; he was very dramatic in any part he played but his preferred role was Lucifer. One session while playing Lucifer, he wriggled into the room on his stomach to look more like a serpent.
    lol. that's pretty good.
    I'm like LeBron James.
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  13. #103
    Time to camp HuskyFreeNorthwest's Avatar
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    I’m probably the only person in Church of Jesus Christ-ism that is disappointed in the two hour church. I’ve have felt a sadness all week over the announcement. There is a part of me that recognizes how dorky it is, but church is my favorite time of the week, even the boring awful lessons that constitute every 5th Sunday and most EQ meetings. My Sunday school classes for the last four and a half years have been a weekly motivation to do better and inspiration from the great youth in my ward. I feel very much like the Church has taken away a life raft from me.

    I don’t have an anger towards leaders or the rest of the Church of Jesus Christians who are excited and looking forward to the new shorter church. I just feel a void which will be hard for me to fill with something of equal or greater spiritual value.
    Get confident, stupid
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  14. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by HuskyFreeNorthwest View Post
    I’m probably the only person in Church of Jesus Christ-ism that is disappointed in the two hour church. I’ve have felt a sadness all week over the announcement. There is a part of me that recognizes how dorky it is, but church is my favorite time of the week, even the boring awful lessons that constitute every 5th Sunday and most EQ meetings. My Sunday school classes for the last four and a half years have been a weekly motivation to do better and inspiration from the great youth in my ward. I feel very much like the Church has taken away a life raft from me.

    I don’t have an anger towards leaders or the rest of the Church of Jesus Christians who are excited and looking forward to the new shorter church. I just feel a void which will be hard for me to fill with something of equal or greater spiritual value.
    There's nothing dorky about your sentiments. I felt a similar pang of sadness, for similar reasons. I love teaching youth Sunday School and look forward to my class every week. But if I am to be honest, Elders quorum, or before that High Priests Group lessons, were/are terrible, so I am looking forward to fewer of those.

    One thing I am really excited about is the emphasis on more gospel learning in the home on Sundays. My wife and I have already started making plans—We've got all kinds of ideas. I guess maybe it's due in part to the fact my two oldest children are recently married and the third oldest is on a mission. In a certain manner my two youngest children have been ignored, or at least we haven't had as much energy for them. This kind of feels like a reset for us, and I am excited about that.

  15. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by HuskyFreeNorthwest View Post
    I’m probably the only person in Church of Jesus Christ-ism that is disappointed in the two hour church. I’ve have felt a sadness all week over the announcement. There is a part of me that recognizes how dorky it is, but church is my favorite time of the week, even the boring awful lessons that constitute every 5th Sunday and most EQ meetings. My Sunday school classes for the last four and a half years have been a weekly motivation to do better and inspiration from the great youth in my ward. I feel very much like the Church has taken away a life raft from me.

    I don’t have an anger towards leaders or the rest of the Church of Jesus Christians who are excited and looking forward to the new shorter church. I just feel a void which will be hard for me to fill with something of equal or greater spiritual value.
    I'll be there for you.

  16. #106
    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuskyFreeNorthwest View Post
    I’m probably the only person in Church of Jesus Christ-ism that is disappointed in the two hour church. I’ve have felt a sadness all week over the announcement. There is a part of me that recognizes how dorky it is, but church is my favorite time of the week, even the boring awful lessons that constitute every 5th Sunday and most EQ meetings. My Sunday school classes for the last four and a half years have been a weekly motivation to do better and inspiration from the great youth in my ward. I feel very much like the Church has taken away a life raft from me.

    I don’t have an anger towards leaders or the rest of the Church of Jesus Christians who are excited and looking forward to the new shorter church. I just feel a void which will be hard for me to fill with something of equal or greater spiritual value.
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    There's nothing dorky about your sentiments. I felt a similar pang of sadness, for similar reasons. I love teaching youth Sunday School and look forward to my class every week. But if I am to be honest, Elders quorum, or before that High Priests Group lessons, were/are terrible, so I am looking forward to fewer of those.

    One thing I am really excited about is the emphasis on more gospel learning in the home on Sundays. My wife and I have already started making plans—We've got all kinds of ideas. I guess maybe it's due in part to the fact my two oldest children are recently married and the third oldest is on a mission. In a certain manner my two youngest children have been ignored, or at least we haven't had as much energy for them. This kind of feels like a reset for us, and I am excited about that.
    Dorks.

    But seriously, what's preventing you from similar Sunday school lessons with your family?
    "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
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  17. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by HuskyFreeNorthwest View Post
    I’m probably the only person in Church of Jesus Christ-ism that is disappointed in the two hour church. I’ve have felt a sadness all week over the announcement. There is a part of me that recognizes how dorky it is, but church is my favorite time of the week, even the boring awful lessons that constitute every 5th Sunday and most EQ meetings. My Sunday school classes for the last four and a half years have been a weekly motivation to do better and inspiration from the great youth in my ward. I feel very much like the Church has taken away a life raft from me.

    I don’t have an anger towards leaders or the rest of the Church of Jesus Christians who are excited and looking forward to the new shorter church. I just feel a void which will be hard for me to fill with something of equal or greater spiritual value.
    It's interesting how the change was taken in by the members of my family. My wife was excited by it. I can see it both ways. My primary aged kids maybe surprisingly did not seem as excited by one hour less of church. I think the point is that how it works out for each of us depends on what we do with the time.

    I am old enough to remember the last change. For my first few months of being a deacon I remember going to early morning priesthood meeting, then going home and coming back for Sunday School, then going home and coming back later for Sacrament Meeting. Primary was a different meeting held during the week, either one day after school or possibly earlier in the day during the summer. The Sacrament was served both in SS and Sacrament meeting. During priesthood meeting we'd get our assignment for passing the Sacrament in the other meetings for that day. There was a junior Sunday School for the primary aged kids. While I don't really remember much passing the sacrament in the adult Sunday School or Sacrament Meeting, I still remember I liked passing it to the younger kids in jr. SS. When the change happened I remember feeling that 3 hours all in the same block was a lot all at once.
    Last edited by BlueK; 10-10-2018 at 07:58 AM.

  18. #108
    Time to camp HuskyFreeNorthwest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelado View Post
    Dorks.

    But seriously, what's preventing you from similar Sunday school lessons with your family?
    There may be nothing that prevents it, but I will also miss greatly the perspective of the youth and honesty in dealing with their struggles and rewards of hearing about their successes. I know and get daily that input from my family. I hope that my family is able to create something similar at home.
    Get confident, stupid
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  19. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by HuskyFreeNorthwest View Post
    There may be nothing that prevents it, but I will also miss greatly the perspective of the youth and honesty in dealing with their struggles and rewards of hearing about their successes. I know and get daily that input from my family. I hope that my family is able to create something similar at home.
    Invite the Sunday School class to your home for continued study. If it involves make your own ice cream sundaes, it may just be wildly successful.

  20. #110
    BYU Delenda Est Mormon Red Death's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuskyFreeNorthwest View Post
    There may be nothing that prevents it, but I will also miss greatly the perspective of the youth and honesty in dealing with their struggles and rewards of hearing about their successes. I know and get daily that input from my family. I hope that my family is able to create something similar at home.
    You will still have it. It will just be every other week
    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

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  21. #111
    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuskyFreeNorthwest View Post
    There may be nothing that prevents it, but I will also miss greatly the perspective of the youth and honesty in dealing with their struggles and rewards of hearing about their successes. I know and get daily that input from my family. I hope that my family is able to create something similar at home.
    That's fair.
    "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
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  22. #112
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampfrog View Post
    Invite the Sunday School class to your home for continued study. If it involves make your own ice cream sundaes, it may just be wildly successful.
    And then start asking for small donations, just to cover the cost of the ice cream and living expenses.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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  23. #113
    Explosivo Commando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuskyFreeNorthwest View Post
    I’m probably the only person in Church of Jesus Christ-ism that is disappointed in the two hour church. I’ve have felt a sadness all week over the announcement. There is a part of me that recognizes how dorky it is, but church is my favorite time of the week, even the boring awful lessons that constitute every 5th Sunday and most EQ meetings. My Sunday school classes for the last four and a half years have been a weekly motivation to do better and inspiration from the great youth in my ward. I feel very much like the Church has taken away a life raft from me.

    I don’t have an anger towards leaders or the rest of the Church of Jesus Christians who are excited and looking forward to the new shorter church. I just feel a void which will be hard for me to fill with something of equal or greater spiritual value.
    I also give 2-hour slacker church the thumbs down.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  24. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    My only problem with the 2-hr church announcement is that we have to wait until January. Boo.

    Almost as bad as having to wait until December 2019 to drop scouting. That is nuts. (I am on the scout committee)
    A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life. - Mohammad Ali

  25. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    My only problem with the 2-hr church announcement is that we have to wait until January. Boo.

    Almost as bad as having to wait until December 2019 to drop scouting. That is nuts. (I am on the scout committee)
    Because my ward meets at 9 am this year, I don't have to wait. I'm on the 1/2 hour church schedule. (Of course there are the 4.5 hours per Sunday until the Christmas Concert that starts next week, but I'll take it.
    “Every player dreams of being a Yankee, and if they don’t it’s because they never got the chance.” Aroldis Chapman

  26. #116
    Board Bookworm happyone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo Diddley View Post
    I'm with the Dude on this one. Nursery is the best calling in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
    I'll third it - its the best calling I've ever had

    I may be small, but I'm slow.

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  27. #117

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    nursery is the best calling in the church by a fairly wide margin.
    I'm like LeBron James.
    -mpfunk

  28. #118
    Senior Member BrutusBuckeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    nursery is the best calling in the church by a fairly wide margin.
    I was a bit skeptical when I got the call to nursery a few months ago. I've been pleasantly surprised at how great it is. However, my wife was librarian in our old ward and I think that might be the best calling.
    When things are at their darkest, it's a brave man that can kick back and party. --Tuck Pendleton

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