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Thread: Two hour church

  1. #61
    Explosivo Commando's Avatar
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    The Mesa temple is shut down for 2+ years for extensive renovation. They demo'd the entire property minus the actual temple. They are redoing the entire property, addressing structural damage inside the temple, rebuilding the visitor's center across the street but this time making it into a Visitor's Center Plus with all kinds of extra stuff- family history center, condominiums, underground parking structure, etc etc etc.

    Conservatively, I assume all this is being done in order to save money.
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  2. #62
    Explosivo Commando's Avatar
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    As far as 2 hour church goes... eh not sure about it. As it stands, Sunday school is forever the best part of church, provided you have a decent instructor. Elder's quorum lessons are pretty tedious- I think we could wrap EQ up in 15 minutes per week, leaving out the lesson and doing assignments and moving bulletins. 2.5 would have been an even sweeter sweet spot, but that would hardly be as newsworthy.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    As far as 2 hour church goes... eh not sure about it. As it stands, Sunday school is forever the best part of church, provided you have a decent instructor. Elder's quorum lessons are pretty tedious- I think we could wrap EQ up in 15 minutes per week, leaving out the lesson and doing assignments and moving bulletins. 2.5 would have been an even sweeter sweet spot, but that would hardly be as newsworthy.
    i maintain that 2 hours is perfect, but i would have gone with 25 minutes each for SS and PH/RS rather than alternating weeks. my favorite part of church is teaching my SS class, so i will miss that on the off week and i think we'd have better quality lessons if they were 20-25 minutes. and i'd say the same of PH lessons.
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  4. #64
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    My only problem with the 2-hr church announcement is that we have to wait until January. Boo.

    Almost as bad as having to wait until December 2019 to drop scouting. That is nuts. (I am on the scout committee)
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  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    My only problem with the 2-hr church announcement is that we have to wait until January. Boo.

    Almost as bad as having to wait until December 2019 to drop scouting. That is nuts. (I am on the scout committee)
    ugh. i must have misremembered. i was thinking scouting was done december of '18.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    My only problem with the 2-hr church announcement is that we have to wait until January. Boo.

    Almost as bad as having to wait until December 2019 to drop scouting. That is nuts. (I am on the scout committee)
    I'm sure those deck chairs have never looked more beautifully arranged!
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  7. #67
    Known Heterosexual RC Vikings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clackamascoug View Post
    Regarding the SLC Temple - updates? Movies instead of live sessions?
    Is SLC the last one live? I wondered if they would go looking for people who could act when trying to fill those spots.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    My only problem with the 2-hr church announcement is that we have to wait until January. Boo.
    You clearly dislike church.

  9. #69
    lollygagger hostile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RC Vikings View Post
    Is SLC the last one live? I wondered if they would go looking for people who could act when trying to fill those spots.
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  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    The Mesa temple is shut down for 2+ years for extensive renovation. They demo'd the entire property minus the actual temple. They are redoing the entire property, addressing structural damage inside the temple, rebuilding the visitor's center across the street but this time making it into a Visitor's Center Plus with all kinds of extra stuff- family history center, condominiums, underground parking structure, etc etc etc.

    Conservatively, I assume all this is being done in order to save money.
    1. What is the relative cost of new temples versus all other expenses that the Church has?
    2. What are the projections in terms of futures revenue and expenses?

    Of course, we have none of this information, since the Church does not want to disclose this information.

    But everyone should realize that the relative cost of small or average temples may be miniscule when compared with the total costs of running the LDS Church.

    Furthermore, things are not always what they seem. Without transparency, no one really knows what their financial situation is. If there is a mass exodus of youth, and baby boomers are retiring, revenue streams may be projected to diminish rapidly.

    wizard_oz_01.jpg


  11. #71

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    CS is definitely more fun when BM is active.

    i hope cardiac doesn't mind being the boring brother.
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  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by ByronMarchant View Post
    1. What is the relative cost of new temples versus all other expenses that the Church has?
    2. What are the projections in terms of futures revenue and expenses?

    Of course, we have none of this information, since the Church does not want to disclose this information.

    But everyone should realize that the relative cost of small or average temples may be miniscule when compared with the total costs of running the LDS Church.

    Furthermore, things are not always what they seem. Without transparency, no one really knows what their financial situation is. If there is a mass exodus of youth, and baby boomers are retiring, revenue streams may be projected to diminish rapidly.
    I don't know about the cost/expenses either way.

    It strikes me in this and other conversations that change is so rare in the LDS culture that a reduction in meeting time is a really big deal to a lot of people.
    If 2-hour church is the magic key to someone finding God, then I guess it's a good thing.

    I'm not sure that an hour a week is going to move the needle much either way, but I like to think that this reduction in meeting-time is an acknowledgement that going to church doesn't please God / bring salvation / demonstrate righteousness.

    Being a good person pleases God / brings salvation / demonstrates righteousness.
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  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    CS is definitely more fun when BM is active.

    i hope cardiac doesn't mind being the boring brother.

  14. #74
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByronMarchant View Post
    1. What is the relative cost of new temples versus all other expenses that the Church has?
    2. What are the projections in terms of futures revenue and expenses?

    Of course, we have none of this information, since the Church does not want to disclose this information.

    But everyone should realize that the relative cost of small or average temples may be miniscule when compared with the total costs of running the LDS Church.

    Furthermore, things are not always what they seem. Without transparency, no one really knows what their financial situation is. If there is a mass exodus of youth, and baby boomers are retiring, revenue streams may be projected to diminish rapidly.

    wizard_oz_01.jpg


    Why do you care about this so much? I confess I didn't read all of your lengthy screed about how you came to leave the church (although I think I am familiar with a lot of it from your prior posts) but it looks like you are definitely 'out.' If so, what is your point here? That you don't think the church is divine and that it is led by men based on fictitious or worldly concerns? OK. Thanks. We get that you think this. Or are you trying to help the rest of us see the light? Because, if so, and speaking only for me, you are wasting your time and becoming a bit repetitive. Do you honestly see yourself as pulling back the curtain on the workings of the church because people here haven't considered it? I guess I can give you the .gif analogy, as the small, annoying yappy dog really does seem to fit.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  15. #75
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solon View Post
    Being a good person pleases God / brings salvation / demonstrates righteousness.
    Isn't that pretty much what RMN said? Wasn't that the underlying thrust of his remarks about the purpose for this change? Unlike you, he would add saving ordinances and certain acts of priesthood authority, but in general, isnt that what he was saying?
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by RC Vikings View Post
    Is SLC the last one live? I wondered if they would go looking for people who could act when trying to fill those spots.
    I have told the story before about a session in SLC where satan and another character got in an argument over whether certain lines had been spoken correctly or at all. It says all you need to know about me that it is one of my most memorable temple experiences.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  17. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    I have told the story before about a session in SLC where satan and another character got in an argument over whether certain lines had been spoken correctly or at all. It says all you need to know about me that it is one of my most memorable temple experiences.
    I remember that story. Funny stuff. This also reminds me of a story my dad tells about an eventful trip he and my mom had to the OG(den) temple back in the day. I don't have time to post it now (depositions!) but i'll type it up later today.
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  18. #78
    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solon View Post
    I don't know about the cost/expenses either way.

    It strikes me in this and other conversations that change is so rare in the LDS culture that a reduction in meeting time is a really big deal to a lot of people.
    If 2-hour church is the magic key to someone finding God, then I guess it's a good thing.

    I'm not sure that an hour a week is going to move the needle much either way, but I like to think that this reduction in meeting-time is an acknowledgement that going to church doesn't please God / bring salvation / demonstrate righteousness.

    Being a good person pleases God / brings salvation / demonstrates righteousness.
    Then why do we still have 2 hours?
    "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
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  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    Isn't that pretty much what RMN said? Wasn't that the underlying thrust of his remarks about the purpose for this change? Unlike you, he would add saving ordinances and certain acts of priesthood authority, but in general, isnt that what he was saying?
    This wasn't directed to me, but I got the complete opposite message. The message I got is that God is fixated on the details, and he's offended when we don't take them as seriously as he does. Of course Nelson believes that there's more to being a good person than observing all the details of ordinances and whatnot, but it's also obvious that his idea of a good person is framed in a rigid definition of church worship.

    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    I have told the story before about a session in SLC where satan and another character got in an argument over whether certain lines had been spoken correctly or at all. It says all you need to know about me that it is one of my most memorable temple experiences.
    I remember LOLing at that. Great story.

  20. #80
    Explosivo Commando's Avatar
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    Projections in terms of the new revenues the remodeled temple will be bringing in? Negative something million, I'd guess? I don't know what kind of money the Church would bring in on a real estate project, but I'm sure there's just a giant conspiracy or impropriety just beyond sight that will help you feel better about not being a part of this.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  21. #81
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    This wasn't directed to me, but I got the complete opposite message. The message I got is that God is fixated on the details, and he's offended when we don't take them as seriously as he does. Of course Nelson believes that there's more to being a good person than observing all the details of ordinances and whatnot, but it's also obvious that his idea of a good person is framed in a rigid definition of church worship.
    WHen he and Cook introduced the two hour plan I heard the precise opposite. It was all about reminding us that we need to be 'religious' in our homes, in our lives and in our families. That going to church is an adjunct to living the gospel at home. That being a faithful member is about living like Christ.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  22. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    Projections in terms of the new revenues the remodeled temple will be bringing in? Negative something million, I'd guess? I don't know what kind of money the Church would bring in on a real estate project, but I'm sure there's just a giant conspiracy or impropriety just beyond sight that will help you feel better about not being a part of this.
    maybe they're making the cafeteria into a food court
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  23. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    WHen he and Cook introduced the two hour plan I heard the precise opposite. It was all about reminding us that we need to be 'religious' in our homes, in our lives and in our families. That going to church is an adjunct to living the gospel at home. That being a faithful member is about living like Christ.
    Wait, I'm sorry. I only listened to Nelson's Sunday morning talk. I thought you were referring to that. My bad, I should've read more carefully.

  24. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuthole View Post
    I remember that story. Funny stuff. This also reminds me of a story my dad tells about an eventful trip he and my mom had to the OG(den) temple back in the day. I don't have time to post it now (depositions!) but i'll type it up later today.
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  25. #85
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RC Vikings View Post
    I wondered if they would go looking for people who could act when trying to fill those spots.
    Having been to multiple sessions in the SLC temple, I can assure you that acting skills are not high on the list when looking for people to fill those roles.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  26. #86
    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    Having been to multiple sessions in the SLC temple, I can assure you that acting skills are not high on the list when looking for people to fill those roles.
    I've only done one session there. Much less theatrical than I was expecting. Also, what's up with Adam and Eve having clothing in the Garden?
    "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
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  27. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelado View Post
    I've only done one session there. Much less theatrical than I was expecting. Also, what's up with Adam and Eve having clothing in the Garden?
    to keep me from getting sick.
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  28. #88
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelado View Post
    I've only done one session there. Much less theatrical than I was expecting. Also, what's up with Adam and Eve having clothing in the Garden?
    Because it’s expensive to clean throw up out of carpet
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  29. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    don't forget!
    Over the years, depositions have robbed this board of a lot of content.
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  30. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Student View Post
    Over the years, depositions have robbed this board of a lot of content.
    I'm like LeBron James.
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