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Thread: Dominating the Ball: Gaggies of USU at BYU

  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveCoug View Post
    I don't think putting in Wilson would make a lick of difference. We are just that bad with bad coaching to boot.
    that one didn't age too well.
    I'm like LeBron James.
    -mpfunk

  2. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Public View Post
    David Nixon and Brian Logan absolutely blasting the team and coaches on the post-game show.
    Meanwhile, Wrubell is polishing turds.

  3. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    that one didn't age too well.
    Not really. It didn't make a lick of difference. I liked what I saw, though.

  4. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveCoug View Post
    Not really. It didn't make a lick of difference. I liked what I saw, though.
    because there were 3 minutes to play and they were down by 30. but the fact is he did make a difference with how he played - he came in for one drive and led the team in rushing. imagine if you could that dimension over 4 quarters.
    I'm like LeBron James.
    -mpfunk

  5. #155

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    If nothing else, the meltdown on CB has been an entertaining read.
    I'm like LeBron James.
    -mpfunk

  6. #156

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    This game was lost by not being able to run, not being able to stop the run and tuning the ball over. It's becoming a trend.

    Third game in a row BYU has regressed. Third game in a row with multiple fumbles. This is the third game in a row BYU hasn't rushed the ball well. Second game in a row with missed kicks. Third home game in a row where we've played like crap. Once again tons of missed blocks. UW was understandable I guess given their talent and speed but if you can't rush for more than 4 ypc against an FCS team and for only 2.8 vs USU you're not a power running team. BYU is still looking for an identity on offense. USU was ranked something like 100 in rushing yards allowed and we should have been able to pound the rock all night. Only 14 rushing attempts for 14 yards until the final drive with Wilson. Its time to start Wilson. He won't magically fix the offense but at least he'll be getting experience for next year.

    Another game where the D couldn't stop the run. They also couldn't pressure the QB or tackle. I'm not really sure what the D was doing all night. Changes need to be made. Hawaii is going to eat this D alive.

    What a pathetic game.

  7. #157

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    You bring in an OL coach from a run first program like LSU to be OC, you would hope he could at least lead a solid rushing attack- he's even failed at that- worse, they have regressed in the run game over the last few games.
    I'm like LeBron James.
    -mpfunk

  8. #158

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    a bit of positivity re: mangum. his escapability this season has been very good, last night was nearly impeccable. he was awesome at evading rushers last night.
    I'm like LeBron James.
    -mpfunk

  9. #159
    Suomalainen New Mexican Disaster's Avatar
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    Bring back Bronco!

  10. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by New Mexican Disaster View Post
    Bring back Bronco!
    Id take Crowton right now.

  11. #161

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    Remember that one time we got destroyed by Utah State two years in a row? That was awesome

  12. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveCoug View Post
    Remember that one time we got destroyed by Utah State two years in a row? That was awesome
    I remember up in Logan after the game, some eight year old kid talked smack to me. It was actually pretty funny. He said, "Aw...that was sad." It pretty much underscored the state of the program at that moment in time.

    Those words were ringing in my ears last night after the game.

  13. #163
    Known Heterosexual RC Vikings's Avatar
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    I felt bad for Sitake last night because I would like to see him succeed but on the other hand it didn't look like he did much to change what was going on. I really doubt he is the guy to turn this around. Canada and Bushman seem to be the only real play makers on the team and with the one hurt and the other not being used much it's a pretty pathetic offense. Also Wilson and Romney will have a nice career together in Provo but it's a ways off before they make a real impact.

  14. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by RC Vikings View Post
    I felt bad for Sitake last night because I would like to see him succeed but on the other hand it didn't look like he did much to change what was going on. I really doubt he is the guy to turn this around. Canada and Bushman seem to be the only real play makers on the team and with the one hurt and the other not being used much it's a pretty pathetic offense. Also Wilson and Romney will have a nice career together in Provo but it's a ways off before they make a real impact.
    Maybe sooner than you think.

  15. #165
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    My Utah State rule is and ever has been this: when you lose to Utah State, somebody should lose their job.

    In 2010, it was Jaime Hill.
    In 2011, it was Jake Heaps-- that Riley Nelson pulled off the win in the end was gravy.
    In 2014, we came to find, it was Bronco. Shortly after that loss, it was made clear to him that it was time for a graceful exit.
    In 2017, it was Ty Detmer.

    If this was merely a loss to an unexpectedly good team, we might suspend the rule. It was not. We got curbstomped by a team that is just not that good. We are much better than that-- or we would be, but for the soon-to-be ex-whatever it is the person does who now must be canned.

    But who?

    Lowest hanging fruit, and the only one that can be done right away, is Tanner Mangum. I think the venom being spewed against him is mostly unfair; for all his struggles, he's not the one whiffing blocks and dropping passes. And we've seen the cries for the backup before; it wasn't that long ago we were screaming for Tanner over a guy whose numbers weren't much different and who is now in the NFL. But within the last two weeks, we've seen how stagnant the offense can be if we do not have a strong running offense, and without Squally, we just don't have a reliable run game. If Wilson can pass not much worse than Tanner and can run a bit as well, that could open things up.

    Then there's Tuiaki. Here, too, the fans are numbnuts. The defenses have been mostly stout since he arrived, with only a few games truly getting out of hand. Using the 24-point metric as what you expect of the defense, we have hit the mark in nearly all our wins and roughly half our losses. The no-blitzing narrative fans are reciting lately is completely false, by the way; he is more conservative, true, but it is untrue that he never blitzes. But something has gone awry in the last two weeks. We haven't just been bad-- we've been out of position, blowing assignments, and generally not playing to capacity.

    The problems are not unique to the D. It turns out that when you start looking for someone on whom to cast blame, there are candidates everywhere: the line misses blocks, the running backs get cut short, the QB misses open throws, the receivers drop them. We are bad on both sides of the ball. When problems abound, you have to think the problem may not be the players, and it may not be the position coaches (do we owe Ty an apology?).

    Kalani better figure this out quick, because if he doesn't he may be the one we nominate for application of the Utah State rule.
    τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

  16. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post
    My Utah State rule is and ever has been this: when you lose to Utah State, somebody should lose their job.

    In 2010, it was Jaime Hill.
    In 2011, it was Jake Heaps-- that Riley Nelson pulled off the win in the end was gravy.
    In 2014, we came to find, it was Bronco. Shortly after that loss, it was made clear to him that it was time for a graceful exit.
    In 2017, it was Ty Detmer.

    If this was merely a loss to an unexpectedly good team, we might suspend the rule. It was not. We got curbstomped by a team that is just not that good. We are much better than that-- or we would be, but for the soon-to-be ex-whatever it is the person does who now must be canned.

    But who?

    Lowest hanging fruit, and the only one that can be done right away, is Tanner Mangum. I think the venom being spewed against him is mostly unfair; for all his struggles, he's not the one whiffing blocks and dropping passes. And we've seen the cries for the backup before; it wasn't that long ago we were screaming for Tanner over a guy whose numbers weren't much different and who is now in the NFL. But within the last two weeks, we've seen how stagnant the offense can be if we do not have a strong running offense, and without Squally, we just don't have a reliable run game. If Wilson can pass not much worse than Tanner and can run a bit as well, that could open things up.

    Then there's Tuiaki. Here, too, the fans are numbnuts. The defenses have been mostly stout since he arrived, with only a few games truly getting out of hand. Using the 24-point metric as what you expect of the defense, we have hit the mark in nearly all our wins and roughly half our losses. The no-blitzing narrative fans are reciting lately is completely false, by the way; he is more conservative, true, but it is untrue that he never blitzes. But something has gone awry in the last two weeks. We haven't just been bad-- we've been out of position, blowing assignments, and generally not playing to capacity.

    The problems are not unique to the D. It turns out that when you start looking for someone on whom to cast blame, there are candidates everywhere: the line misses blocks, the running backs get cut short, the QB misses open throws, the receivers drop them. We are bad on both sides of the ball. When problems abound, you have to think the problem may not be the players, and it may not be the position coaches (do we owe Ty an apology?).

    Kalani better figure this out quick, because if he doesn't he may be the one we nominate for application of the Utah State rule.
    He's the one who threw a terrible pick-6 last night, and later fumbled the ball somewhere near mid-field. Without those two things, how much closer could the game have been? I think his "shot group" is a bit too wide, and can't always throw a good ball. That said, he's a senior, and Wilson's a freshman. I'll trust the coaches to know when to make a change at QB.

    Overall, I think I agree with your post. But isn't Tuiaki accountable for the lack of discipline on defense? I suppose only to the extent that Sitake is not responsible for the lack of discipline on the whole team. I'll say this, when Hill was fired, Bronco sure did make an immediate difference. It sure would be nice to be able to make a similar change. No one seemed to be able to tackle last night, and so many defenders were out of position. It's like they weren't playing as a team.

  17. #167

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    this usu team is good, let’s not pretend like they’re not. plenty of issues to be identified and solved from byu’s perspective but wells is a good coach and love is a good player
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  18. #168

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    Is this the right place to add my $.02 about the current state of BYU football?

    This is not a new trend. Blame Sitake, or Derik Stevenson, or Tanner Mangum if you want, but BYU football has been on a pretty steep decline for some time now primarily due to 2 things:

    1) Utah being invited to the party and we were left behind. This is a tiny pond of recruiting talent and little brother now is the giant big brother (lack of pac12 championships notwithstanding; they can offer the chance to play for the rose bowl and we offer the motor city bowl if we even have a winning record). If you look back through our respective histories, when BYU was good, Utah sucked. Now that Utah has a good program, they land a lot of our recruits and just all around kick our ass. This is the number one reason for the stagnant state of BYU football.

    2) Independence. This situation is awful, we sold out our basketball program for more money for football. It was a short-term money win for long term football suckitude. I'm not saying going back to the MWC is a panacea, but a return to the MWC would be better than the 10-15 year path of the total demise of BYU football. At least in the MWC we can play for something other than a crappy bowl that excites exactly nobody (including the players).

    Both of the aforementioned reasons results in sub-par athletes. We got our asses handed to us by a bunch of try-hards from Logan. They have a handful of legit players (which is more than I can say about BYU), but they just killed us everywhere.

    There are other factors that make the modern landscape of college football relatively difficult compared to the 80's (social media making it more difficult for players to avoid the honor code office, academics being increasing more difficult at BYU shrinking the already small pool of athletes to choose from, etc etc), but the top 2 are 80ish% of the problem. All in all, I see little hope for anything other than hovering around 60-80th place in the world of FBS teams. Getting into a non power5 conference would probably breath a little life into this program which otherwise within 5 years will be on life support.

    That's my rosy post USU loss assessment.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bean View Post
    Is this the right place to add my $.02 about the current state of BYU football?

    This is not a new trend. Blame Sitake, or Derik Stevenson, or Tanner Mangum if you want, but BYU football has been on a pretty steep decline for some time now primarily due to 2 things:

    1) Utah being invited to the party and we were left behind. This is a tiny pond of recruiting talent and little brother now is the giant big brother (lack of pac12 championships notwithstanding; they can offer the chance to play for the rose bowl and we offer the motor city bowl if we even have a winning record). If you look back through our respective histories, when BYU was good, Utah sucked. Now that Utah has a good program, they land a lot of our recruits and just all around kick our ass. This is the number one reason for the stagnant state of BYU football.

    2) Independence. This situation is awful, we sold out our basketball program for more money for football. It was a short-term money win for long term football suckitude. I'm not saying going back to the MWC is a panacea, but a return to the MWC would be better than the 10-15 year path of the total demise of BYU football. At least in the MWC we can play for something other than a crappy bowl that excites exactly nobody (including the players).

    Both of the aforementioned reasons results in sub-par athletes. We got our asses handed to us by a bunch of try-hards from Logan. They have a handful of legit players (which is more than I can say about BYU), but they just killed us everywhere.

    There are other factors that make the modern landscape of college football relatively difficult compared to the 80's (social media making it more difficult for players to avoid the honor code office, academics being increasing more difficult at BYU shrinking the already small pool of athletes to choose from, etc etc), but the top 2 are 80ish% of the problem. All in all, I see little hope for anything other than hovering around 60-80th place in the world of FBS teams. Getting into a non power5 conference would probably breath a little life into this program which otherwise within 5 years will be on life support.

    That's my rosy post USU loss assessment.
    One is true, two couldn't be more wrong.
    τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

  20. #170
    Royal Rooter Green Monstah's Avatar
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    I re-watched part of the game last night.

    Squally obviously isn't the same when not healthy. His big plays are a big reason we beat Arizona and Wisconsin. I like Katoa, but he's a little too skinny and a little too tall. That said, if he gets injured, we're screwed.

    Saleapaga struggles downfield. In instances where his assignment is to block the backers, he often misses them completely. It makes it hard to get chunk yardage on the ground when a backer is running free.

    It's sad to say, but USU is simply a better team. They're clearly better coached, they have a superior game plan against us, and while their players may not have as many recruiting stars as our players do, they maximize their talent, and a lot of our guys underachieve. I don't think firing Kalani is the right move simply because the list of TR holding, qualified coaching candidates willing to come to BYU is so small.

    I do think Tuiaki deserves some heat. In the RPO, Love and Thompson could scan the whole damn field for 2-3 seconds with no fear of a D-lineman blowing up the play because we have no pash rush. Even when Tonga gets in the backfield, the dude is so chunky, he can't move laterally and is easily evaded.
    Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

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  21. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Monstah View Post
    I re-watched part of the game last night.

    Squally obviously isn't the same when not healthy. His big plays are a big reason we beat Arizona and Wisconsin. I like Katoa, but he's a little too skinny and a little too tall. That said, if he gets injured, we're screwed.

    Saleapaga struggles downfield. In instances where his assignment is to block the backers, he often misses them completely. It makes it hard to get chunk yardage on the ground when a backer is running free.

    It's sad to say, but USU is simply a better team. They're clearly better coached, they have a superior game plan against us, and while their players may not have as many recruiting stars as our players do, they maximize their talent, and a lot of our guys underachieve. I don't think firing Kalani is the right move simply because the list of TR holding, qualified coaching candidates willing to come to BYU is so small.

    I do think Tuiaki deserves some heat. In the RPO, Love and Thompson could scan the whole damn field for 2-3 seconds with no fear of a D-lineman blowing up the play because we have no pash rush. Even when Tonga gets in the backfield, the dude is so chunky, he can't move laterally and is easily evaded.
    pretty crazy how crippling that requirement is. that an argument can be made that you can't fire a shitty coach who is killing the program simply because that requirement limits the pool to about 5 (or less) legit candidates.

    ftr, i disagree with GM here, but it is a valid concern. i think you get lance anderson (yes, that same guy whose defense just gave up 40 to the utes - but whose defense has been very good overall the last few years) or darrell bevel, to agree in principle, then you pull plug on KS. it would be hard to be much worse. if neither will take the job, i'm not sure where you go.
    Last edited by smokymountainrain; 10-08-2018 at 06:53 AM.
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  22. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    pretty crazy how crippling that requirement is. that an argument can be made that you can't fire a shitty coach who is killing the program simply because that requirement limits the pool to about 5 (or less) legit candidates.

    ftr, i disagree with GM here, but it is a valid concern. i think you get lance anderson (yes, that same guy whose defense just gave up 40 to the utes - but whose defense has been very good overall the last few years) or darrell bevel, to agree in principle, then you pull plug on KS. it would be hard to be much worse. if either of them won't take the job, i'm not sure where you go.
    To be fair to Stanford, Utah put up even more points against Weber State.

  23. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    To be fair to Stanford, Utah put up even more points against Weber State.
    I'm like LeBron James.
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  24. #174
    Royal Rooter Green Monstah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    pretty crazy how crippling that requirement is. that an argument can be made that you can't fire a shitty coach who is killing the program simply because that requirement limits the pool to about 5 (or less) legit candidates.

    ftr, i disagree with GM here, but it is a valid concern. i think you get lance anderson (yes, that same guy whose defense just gave up 40 to the utes - but whose defense has been very good overall the last few years) or darrell bevel, to agree in principle, then you pull plug on KS. it would be hard to be much worse. if neither will take the job, i'm not sure where you go.
    My info is 2.5 years old, but from people I know who know both dudes, neither were interested in BYU post-Bronco. Obviously Bevell's situation has changed, but if you could make decent money as an NFL position coach or coordinator with no recruiting, I'm not sure why you wouldn't take the NFL job.
    Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

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  25. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Monstah View Post
    My info is 2.5 years old, but from people I know who know both dudes, neither were interested in BYU post-Bronco. Obviously Bevell's situation has changed, but if you could make decent money as an NFL position coach or coordinator with no recruiting, I'm not sure why you wouldn't take the NFL job.
    to your point - i know for a fact Bevell prefers to stay in the NFL. but if the NFL doesn't come knocking and BYU, with all the church saves from going to 2 hour church, is willing to show him the money, you never know.
    I'm like LeBron James.
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  26. #176
    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    to your point - i know for a fact Bevell prefers to stay in the NFL. but if the NFL doesn't come knocking and BYU, with all the church saves from going to 2 hour church, is willing to show him the money, you never know.
    "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
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