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Thread: Demormonization

  1. #1
    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Default Demormonization

    The LDS Church has been increasingly moving away from the Book of Mormon for a long time. It’s been maybe 20 years since they moved all the BOM characters to the basement of the visitors center on TS. JS has been likewise deemphasized. His images are nowhere above ground on TS. Some of you certainly recall that there used to be a “new” visitors center in that building in the eastern part of TS on South Temple that had BOM characters as talking robots like Disney’s An Evening With Mr. Lincoln. Those are long gone. GCs rarely mention the BOM—certainly not Laminites and Nephites and the yin and yang qualities. You certainly won’t again see any GC -authored books about the BOM per se. Hinkley’s book came out maybe 20 years ago, and I remember looking in the index and not finishing a single reference in that entire door stopper to Lamanits or Nephites.

    This latest request that we not call you Mormons anymore is part of that. I think people who identify with whatever should be called what they want to be called. So I say LDS when talking to members. I might say Mormon if my interlocutor is not too familiar with the LDS Church and I want him to know what I’m talking about. I don’t think Mormons has reached the point of being offensive to LDS; when that happens, I assure you I’ll expunge the word form my vocabulary. I doubt we’ll ever see an explicit characterization by the Church of the BOM as we have seen from the Church of Christ. It’s never that candid.

    Thoughts?
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    Board eye candy beefytee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    ...JS has been likewise deemphasized. His images are nowhere above ground on TS...
    When did they remove the Priesthood restoration statues?

  3. #3

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    I guess I'll bite. I'm not seeing the deemphasis from where I sit.

    It's been a whole year since the prophet's last challenge to read the BOM daily. It and the restoration through Joseph Smith is still the centerpiece of our proselytizing efforts. Every general conference features both as topics. Most lessons or talks reference at least one and often both.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by beefytee View Post
    When did they remove the Priesthood restoration statues?
    They were still there this morning as well as Joseph and Hyrum east of them.
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    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    The LDS Church has been increasingly moving away from the Book of Mormon for a long time. It’s been maybe 20 years since they moved all the BOM characters to the basement of the visitors center on TS. JS has been likewise deemphasized. His images are nowhere above ground on TS. Some of you certainly recall that there used to be a “new” visitors center in that building in the eastern part of TS on South Temple that had BOM characters as talking robots like Disney’s An Evening With Mr. Lincoln. Those are long gone. GCs rarely mention the BOM—certainly not Laminites and Nephites and the yin and yang qualities. You certainly won’t again see any GC -authored books about the BOM per se. Hinkley’s book came out maybe 20 years ago, and I remember looking in the index and not finishing a single reference in that entire door stopper to Lamanits or Nephites.

    This latest request that we not call you Mormons anymore is part of that. I think people who identify with whatever should be called what they want to be called. So I say LDS when talking to members. I might say Mormon if my interlocutor is not too familiar with the LDS Church and I want him to know what I’m talking about. I don’t think Mormons has reached the point of being offensive to LDS; when that happens, I assure you I’ll expunge the word form my vocabulary. I doubt we’ll ever see an explicit characterization by the Church of the BOM as we have seen from the Church of Christ. It’s never that candid.

    Thoughts?
    My thought is I wonder if it hurts you to sit down given how much you blow it out .... your comment, as a friend of mine likes to say, is counter factual.


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  6. #6
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Default Demormonization

    Quote Originally Posted by Copelius View Post
    They were still there this morning as well as Joseph and Hyrum east of them.
    Looks like they were removed sometime after your sighting but before SU’s post.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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    вот так штука CardiacCoug's Avatar
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    I agree in the sense that it would be a good thing to de-emphasize the “historical” elements of the BOM since it is clearly not any type of literal history. Better to emphasize the inspired and inspirational aspects of the BOM instead.

  8. #8

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    Does the visitor center still have facsimiles of other engraven metal plates found around the world? I always thought rhat was cool.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    The LDS Church has been increasingly moving away from the Book of Mormon for a long time. It’s been maybe 20 years since they moved all the BOM characters to the basement of the visitors center on TS. JS has been likewise deemphasized. His images are nowhere above ground on TS. Some of you certainly recall that there used to be a “new” visitors center in that building in the eastern part of TS on South Temple that had BOM characters as talking robots like Disney’s An Evening With Mr. Lincoln. Those are long gone. GCs rarely mention the BOM—certainly not Laminites and Nephites and the yin and yang qualities. You certainly won’t again see any GC -authored books about the BOM per se. Hinkley’s book came out maybe 20 years ago, and I remember looking in the index and not finishing a single reference in that entire door stopper to Lamanits or Nephites.

    This latest request that we not call you Mormons anymore is part of that. I think people who identify with whatever should be called what they want to be called. So I say LDS when talking to members. I might say Mormon if my interlocutor is not too familiar with the LDS Church and I want him to know what I’m talking about. I don’t think Mormons has reached the point of being offensive to LDS; when that happens, I assure you I’ll expunge the word form my vocabulary. I doubt we’ll ever see an explicit characterization by the Church of the BOM as we have seen from the Church of Christ. It’s never that candid.

    Thoughts?
    Anytime you seek branding it is based upon what makes you unique. I think this is only the 798th time you have mentioned the Book of Mormon pictures in the basement of the SL Temple Visitor's Center sharing space with the gazillion lights to be strung up in December. In the day when the United States was decidedly more Christian the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints sought to differentiate itself with the Book of Mormon. Now that is not nearly as necessary as crazy beliefs about having dinner as a family can accomplish the same branding purpose.
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  10. #10

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    I disagree that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is de-emphasizing the Book of Mormon. I also disagree that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is de-emphasizing the worship of Joseph Smith. I'll agree with you on the later point when Praise to the Man is removed from the LDS Hymn book.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
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    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    I disagree that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is de-emphasizing the Book of Mormon. I also disagree that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is de-emphasizing the worship of Joseph Smith. I'll agree with you on the later point when Praise to the Man is removed from the LDS Hymn book.
    A week ago yesterday we stood and sang a rousing rendition of this hymn between speakers in sacramennt meeting. The earth lauds his fame!
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    A week ago yesterday we stood and sang a rousing rendition of this hymn between speakers in sacramennt meeting. The earth lauds his fame!
    I now fight him in vain.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  13. #13
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    I now fight him in vain.
    At least you recognize it.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Default Demormonization

    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    A week ago yesterday we stood and sang a rousing rendition of this hymn between speakers in sacramennt meeting. The earth lauds his fame!
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    I think prior to baptism, it should be a requirement for a convert to observe a signing of Praise to the Man as a rest hymn.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  16. #16
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    I think prior to baptism, it should be a requirement for a convert to observe a signing of Praise to the Man as a rest hymn.
    I’ve told the story before, but we had what was basically a Joseph Smith worship service one week, including a standing intermediate hymn of Praise to the Man. A full investigator family had come and was sitting on the third row. They dropped the lessons that week.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  17. #17
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    I’ve told the story before, but we had what was basically a Joseph Smith worship service one week, including a standing intermediate hymn of Praise to the Man. A full investigator family had come and was sitting on the third row. They dropped the lessons that week.
    Yeah, you have mentioned that story. 40-50 times.
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    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Yeah, you have mentioned that story. 40-50 times.
    Just trying to perfect it for when the podcasts go live.
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  19. #19

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    I know on my mission families never discontinued discussions except when we sang that hymn in Sacrament meeting.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCcoug View Post
    I know on my mission families never discontinued discussions except when we sang that hymn in Sacrament meeting.
    Especially at the point they were coming to Church to see in person the level of commitment of Church members to their religious community along with the natural progression of the discussions to the point where legitimate commitments were being extended. Nope, it was the vilifying of funk's vanity that drove them away!
    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
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    I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
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  21. #21
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Yeah, you have mentioned that story. 40-50 times.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  22. #22
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    We sang it loudly and proudly. AnD uptempo, which is good. It made me feel faithful and Scottish all at once.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    We sang it loudly and proudly. AnD uptempo, which is good. It made me feel faithful and Scottish all at once.
    Next to thanking God I came of age in the 1980's having Scottish blood coarsing thru my veins is gratitude platitude number too. I get you lil Gorilla man!
    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
    -General George S. Patton

    I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
    -DOCTOR Wuap

  24. #24
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    We sang it loudly and proudly. AnD uptempo, which is good. It made me feel faithful and Scottish all at once.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  25. #25
    Senior Member Omaha 680's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    I now fight him in vain.
    Don't move to Illinois. I sing the original lyrics.

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