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General Conference / Easter 2018

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  • Originally posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    Wow. Home teaching must be awesome up Cowboy’s way. Our ward’s goal would have been ambitious at 50%.
    You are younger than I, but you should be old enough to know that we never set attainable goals in this church.
    sigpic
    "Outlined against a blue, gray
    October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
    Grantland Rice, 1924

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    • Can someone explain to me what "Non-consensual immorality" is. It seems it would need to be consensual to be immoral.

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      • Originally posted by RC Vikings View Post
        Can someone explain to me what "Non-consensual immorality" is. It seems it would need to be consensual to be immoral.
        Uh, rape? Seems pretty immoral to me.
        Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

        "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

        GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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        • Originally posted by RC Vikings View Post
          Can someone explain to me what "Non-consensual immorality" is. It seems it would need to be consensual to be immoral.
          Dumb choice of words, but the reaction has been ridiculous.
          "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
          "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
          "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
            Dumb choice of words, but the reaction has been ridiculous.
            No kidding. Where has mpfunk been on this?
            You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay
            Almost everything you post is snarky, smug, condescending, or just downright mean-spirited. --Jeffrey Lebowski

            Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump
            You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

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            • Originally posted by falafel View Post
              Uh, rape? Seems pretty immoral to me.
              I was listening and wasn't really sure what he meant. It just seems like it would need to be consensual to be immoral for both parties involved.

              Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
              Dumb choice of words, but the reaction has been ridiculous.
              It's kinda blown up, he's a smart guy I wonder why he went with what he did.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by RC Vikings View Post
                It's kinda blown up, he's a smart guy I wonder why he went with what he did.
                Agree. Back in the day, we didn't mince words:

                Members sometimes ask why Church disciplinary councils are held. The purpose is threefold: to save the soul of the transgressor, to protect the innocent, and to safeguard the Church’s purity, integrity, and good name.

                The First Presidency has instructed that disciplinary councils must be held in cases of murder, incest, or apostasy. A disciplinary council must also be held when a prominent Church leader commits a serious transgression, when the transgressor is a predator who may be a threat to other persons, when the person shows a pattern of repeated serious transgressions, when a serious transgression is widely known, and when the transgressor is guilty of serious deceptive practices and false representations or other terms of fraud or dishonesty in business transactions.

                Disciplinary councils may also be convened to consider a member’s standing in the Church following serious transgression such as abortion, transsexual operation, attempted murder, rape, forcible sexual abuse, intentionally inflicting serious physical injuries on others, adultery, fornication, homosexual relations, child abuse (sexual or physical), spouse abuse, deliberate abandonment of family responsibilities, robbery, burglary, embezzlement, theft, sale of illegal drugs, fraud, perjury, or false swearing.
                You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay
                Almost everything you post is snarky, smug, condescending, or just downright mean-spirited. --Jeffrey Lebowski

                Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump
                You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

                Comment


                • Originally posted by RC Vikings View Post
                  I was listening and wasn't really sure what he meant. It just seems like it would need to be consensual to be immoral for both parties involved.

                  It's kinda blown up, he's a smart guy I wonder why he went with what he did.
                  Yeah, he's a smart guy so I am pretty sure he wasn't thinking "Hey I need to shame some victims."

                  I am guessing he thought "nonconsensual sex" was a little jarring for a conference talk so he went with "nonconsensual immorality" instead.
                  "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                  "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                  "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                    Dumb choice of words, but the reaction has been ridiculous.
                    I also don’t like the word choice (reminds me of SSA) but the nice thing about using non consensual immorality is that it covers more than rape. It’s a broader term in that it can cover sexual assault and just sexual misconduct.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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                    • Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                      I also don’t like the word choice (reminds me of SSA) but the nice thing about using non consensual immorality is that it covers more than rape. It’s a broader term in that it can cover sexual assault and just sexual misconduct.
                      Yeah, I can assure you there is a very broad range of things that happen under the "nonconsensual" umbrella.
                      "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                      "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                      "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                        I also don’t like the word choice (reminds me of SSA) but the nice thing about using non consensual immorality is that it covers more than rape. It’s a broader term in that it can cover sexual assault and just sexual misconduct.


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                        You're not even using the ecclesiastically correct terminology, that would be Same Gender Attraction.

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                        • I've thought about this term quite a bit since he used it. It was, unquestionably, a poor choice of words, especially given the present climate. I cringed when he used it and actually commented to Mrs. D that it would be in the news within 24 hours. SUwish!

                          That said, when taken in context, Cook was clearly speaking to those who act immorally against another without their consent; he was clearly not implying immorality on the part of the victim. The term is truthful when you break it down. Someone who has raped or sexually assaulted another has acted immorally against another without their consent. But culturally as Mormons, and socially as Americans, we are conditioned to associate the word "immorality" in the sexual context with two consenting people acting together. So that choice of word leaves things wide open for the inference of immorality by the victim.

                          It was a mistake by Cook made out of an attempt to soften the harshness of tone. But one thing I think all church leaders, including the brethren, would do well to learn is that intentionally avoiding terms that are uncomfortable, albeit medically/scientifically/legally accurate, often gives those terms more power. More often than not, using the actual correct terms demystifies things.
                          Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

                          There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock

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                          • Self abuse and little factory agree.


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                            "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by cowboy View Post
                              You are younger than I, but you should be old enough to know that we never set attainable goals in this church.
                              Although your line of work might make you feel this way, I think I'm closer to the '71/PAC end of the spectrum than you are.
                              "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
                              "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
                              - SeattleUte

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                              • Just got another letter on the new ministering program. EQ and RS presidencies are asked to do ministering interviews once per quarter. A chat with either of the two companions is sufficient. The only thing submitted up the line for reporting will be the percentage of companionships interviewed by the EQ and RS presidents during the quarter.
                                "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                                "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                                "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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