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  • #76
    Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    I am starting to think we are going nowhere with Dave Rose. He had a nice run with Jimmer, but seems to have perpetually underachieved since then. His defenses are atrocious. The players don't seem particularly loyal. We would be far better this year with Mika. And many of the players that leave to play elsewhere seem to flourish after leaving. What is most troubling to me this year is that the teams seem to have regressed as the season goes on. That is not an indicator of good coaching.

    Yeah, I get that he has a respectable W/L record and lots of 20-win seasons, but on the rare occasion we make the Big Dance, we almost always flame out in the first round. And perennial 3rd place finishes in the WCC are nothing to brag about.

    I think it is time for him to move on and give someone else a shot. Agree or disagree?
    Article on former players now at other schools.

    https://www.vanquishthefoe.com/2018/...-other-schools

    Bartley having a great career. Looks like he is way better than Hardnett. Really missed on that guy.

    Chatman thriving at BC. Might get in the dance as a bubble team.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
      Article on former players now at other schools.

      https://www.vanquishthefoe.com/2018/...-other-schools

      Bartley having a great career. Looks like he is way better than Hardnett. Really missed on that guy.

      Chatman thriving at BC. Might get in the dance as a bubble team.
      One thing BYU says is that they weren't expecting and didn't want Bartley to leave. However he did get benched a lot when he made mistakes, so I can understand why he left. Then again, Rose has been criticized a lot over the years for "never" benching players when they play badly/take bad shots/miss too many shots. All the contradictions in the criticisms are kind of funny to me. Every player in that article probably had complaints about getting benched too much.

      If we do have mass defections/transfers again this year then I may be about ready to throw in the towel, albeit sadly. I do think we can have a very good year next season if we can return 8-9 players instead of the standard 3-5 we've been seeing year to year for the last 4-5 years.
      Last edited by BlueK; 02-21-2018, 01:15 PM.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
        Article on former players now at other schools.

        https://www.vanquishthefoe.com/2018/...-other-schools

        Bartley having a great career. Looks like he is way better than Hardnett. Really missed on that guy.

        Chatman thriving at BC. Might get in the dance as a bubble team.
        I believe the approved CB response is that those guys weren’t willing to live the honor code.
        Get confident, stupid
        -landpoke

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        • #79
          Originally posted by HuskyFreeNorthwest View Post
          I believe the approved CB response is that those guys weren’t willing to live the honor code.
          Standard answer over there for sure for football players. I haven't seen that used as much for basketball.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
            Article on former players now at other schools.

            https://www.vanquishthefoe.com/2018/...-other-schools

            Bartley having a great career. Looks like he is way better than Hardnett. Really missed on that guy.

            Chatman thriving at BC. Might get in the dance as a bubble team.
            Cory Calvert averaging 1.6 ppg and not getting many minutes for UVU.
            Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

            "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

            GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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            • #81
              Originally posted by falafel View Post
              Cory Calvert averaging 1.6 ppg and not getting many minutes for UVU.
              He showed some promise as a freshman before his mission, I thought.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                Article on former players now at other schools.

                https://www.vanquishthefoe.com/2018/...-other-schools

                Bartley having a great career. Looks like he is way better than Hardnett. Really missed on that guy.

                Chatman thriving at BC. Might get in the dance as a bubble team.
                I was disappointed with both of those transfers - I really liked Bartley's athleticism and overall skill set. Chatman played solid defense and was at least decent as a shooter/scorer.
                "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
                - Goatnapper'96

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                  Article on former players now at other schools.

                  https://www.vanquishthefoe.com/2018/...-other-schools

                  Bartley having a great career. Looks like he is way better than Hardnett. Really missed on that guy.

                  Chatman thriving at BC. Might get in the dance as a bubble team.
                  I could be way off on this, but I don't know if the Bartley transfer was a matter of getting cut or a matter of Bartley wanting out of BYU. Anyone have the scoop on this?

                  BYU burned the bridge with Chatman's sister too. Serious bummer.
                  Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

                  "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    As with football, I think it's a mix of both talent and coaching issues. I don't feel strongly one way or another that Rose should be shown the door simply because I know BYU doesn't have a large pool of coaching candidates from which to draw (except Big T!). I don't have anything other than anecdotal observances to cite, but it appears we miss on "big time" recruits a lot more frequently than other programs. I know Lone Peak was / is a great high school basketball program that plays way more athletic teams from across the country and often beats them, but I'm not sure how well that translates at the college level. Haws nor Emery are anywhere near top 100 college players considering you see about 50-60 college kids get drafted per year when you factor international players. The NBA draft could go for 10 rounds and you wouldn't see Haws, Emery, or Dastrup selected, and yet all of these kids were top 100 recruits. Rose has done a solid job of landing kids with a lot of stars next to their names primarily because they are LDS and in his backyard, but I question his staff's ability to evaluate and/or develop talent and how willing they are to look outside what is readily available in Utah.

                    Continuity is another huge concern as this roster turns over way too frequently. How good would Chatman, Bartley, and Nielsen look on this roster right now? Is BYU's culture and its expectations just too much for kids who didn't grow up in the school's backyard like Bartley? How many times do you let a solid legacy kid like Chatman go over (depending on who you want to believe) playing time and favoritism? How do you run off Nielsen or fail to develop him yet hold on to Worthington and Shaw?

                    One thing is certain and it sucks testes. We probably need to temper expectations as fans because whether or not we want to believe it, the talent level between us and USD, USF, or Pacific isn't that big anymore.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by HBCoug View Post
                      As with football, I think it's a mix of both talent and coaching issues. I don't feel strongly one way or another that Rose should be shown the door simply because I know BYU doesn't have a large pool of coaching candidates from which to draw (except Big T!). I don't have anything other than anecdotal observances to cite, but it appears we miss on "big time" recruits a lot more frequently than other programs. I know Lone Peak was / is a great high school basketball program that plays way more athletic teams from across the country and often beats them, but I'm not sure how well that translates at the college level. Haws nor Emery are anywhere near top 100 college players considering you see about 50-60 college kids get drafted per year when you factor international players. The NBA draft could go for 10 rounds and you wouldn't see Haws, Emery, or Dastrup selected, and yet all of these kids were top 100 recruits. Rose has done a solid job of landing kids with a lot of stars next to their names primarily because they are LDS and in his backyard, but I question his staff's ability to evaluate and/or develop talent and how willing they are to look outside what is readily available in Utah.

                      Continuity is another huge concern as this roster turns over way too frequently. How good would Chatman, Bartley, and Nielsen look on this roster right now? Is BYU's culture and its expectations just too much for kids who didn't grow up in the school's backyard like Bartley? How many times do you let a solid legacy kid like Chatman go over (depending on who you want to believe) playing time and favoritism? How do you run off Nielsen or fail to develop him yet hold on to Worthington and Shaw?

                      One thing is certain and it sucks testes. We probably need to temper expectations as fans because whether or not we want to believe it, the talent level between us and USD, USF, or Pacific isn't that big anymore.
                      That cuts both ways. If those tiny programs can recruit decent athletes then BYU should be able to. That falls on the coaching staff.
                      "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                      "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                      "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                        That cuts both ways. If those tiny programs can recruit decent athletes then BYU should be able to. That falls on the coaching staff.
                        Come live near the beach. You can drink and have sex.

                        Come live in the mountains. No drinking, no sex.

                        It does make it a little more difficult.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by The_Tick View Post
                          Come live near the beach. You can drink and have sex.

                          Come live in the mountains. No drinking, no sex.

                          It does make it a little more difficult.
                          Ha. And you guys mock CB posters for rehashing the same old excuses.
                          "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                          "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                          "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by The_Tick View Post
                            Come live near the beach. You can drink and have sex.

                            Come live in the mountains. No drinking, no sex.

                            It does make it a little more difficult.
                            I would love to hear the sales pitch for Stockton, California.

                            "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                            "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                            "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by The_Tick View Post
                              Come live near the beach. You can drink and have sex.

                              Come live in the mountains. No drinking, no sex.

                              It does make it a little more difficult.
                              there are dozens of programs with no recruiting advantages like near the beach that somehow get better talent and coaching. Not Being near a beach isnt a good excuse

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                              • #90
                                spokane is an absolute dump with no redeeming qualities. provo is 100x better.
                                Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

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