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Time for Dave Rose to move along?

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  • Originally posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    I assume the Dude's pic of the Stockton tent city was of UOP students lining up days un advance for the next game.
    Yes!

    By golly, somewhere in that crowd of three dozen fans at the home games there has to be at least one coed willing to have sex on a cold, rocky NorCal beach.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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    • Originally posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
      I assume the Dude's pic of the Stockton tent city was of UOP students lining up days un advance for the next game.
      Speaking of temporary housing lineups in college cities, I recently spent a day in Palo Alto for some depositions. What on earth is with the main street there (El Camino Real) being lined for miles and miles with old parked RVs? A bit of an eyesore on an otherwise quaint little city.
      Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

      There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock

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      • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
        Yes!

        By golly, somewhere in that crowd of three dozen fans at the home games there has to be at least one coed willing to have sex on a cold, rocky NorCal beach.
        NorCal beaches may often be cold, but they are not rocky.

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        • Originally posted by Crockett View Post
          NorCal beaches may often be cold, but they are not rocky.
          Ok. Thanks creekster.
          "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
          "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
          "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
            Ok. Thanks creekster.
            You were besmirching my homeland.

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            • Originally posted by All-American View Post
              They don't even have a hospital. Just a wagon with a saw, liquor, and a handgun.
              Not so fast - my understanding is that the handgun doesn't make it there until sometime next week.
              "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
              - Goatnapper'96

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              • Originally posted by Donuthole View Post
                Speaking of temporary housing lineups in college cities, I recently spent a day in Palo Alto for some depositions. What on earth is with the main street there (El Camino Real) being lined for miles and miles with old parked RVs? A bit of an eyesore on an otherwise quaint little city.
                they allegedly have to move them every three days, but there’s a big ongoing fight about it. lots of students and people who have been priced out of the market vs. people who don’t live in some of the nicest zip codes in the country to have it look like a trailer park.
                Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

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                • Originally posted by Pelado View Post
                  Not so fast - my understanding is that the handgun doesn't make it there until sometime next week.
                  is that when the express makes it in with that month’s stores?
                  Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

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                  • Dave Rose is a very good coach. Over the past few seasons, he has made some very poor decisions regarding players and recruiting. Putting too much faith in the promise of the Lone Peak Three, at the expense of players already in the system is his biggest mistake to date: it has set the program back, but not to a point where it won't recover in typical Dave Rose fashion.

                    This year's team is young and would clearly have benefited from upperclassmen on the roster. Next season is a crucial one for Rose. While I agree that he has earned the right to decide his future, more than his inability to evaluate talent (Chatman in particular) and develop big men, Rose's biggest failing may be his inability/unwillingness to keep pace with the state of the game:

                    The American game of basketball has gone global — except at BYU. BYU coaches not only don’t leave the U.S. to sign players, they barely leave Utah — actually, they barely cross county lines. In the last eight seasons, 57 roster spots were filled by recruits from Utah high schools — an average of seven per season — and 46 of those spots were taken by players from Utah County.
                    https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...ting-pool.html

                    If the trend continues, BYU will continue to fight for third place in the WCC.
                    Last edited by tooblue; 02-22-2018, 09:51 AM.

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                    • Originally posted by tooblue View Post
                      Dave Rose is a very good coach. Over the past few seasons, he has made some very poor decisions regarding players and recruiting. Putting too much faith in the promise of the Lone Peak Three, at the expense of players already in the system is his biggest mistake to date: it has set the program back, but not to a point where it won't recover in typical Dave Rose fashion.

                      This year's team is young and would clearly have benefited from upperclassmen on the roster. Next season is a crucial one for Rose. While I agree that he has earned the right to decide his future, more than his inability to evaluate talent (Chatman in particular) and develop big men, Rose's biggest failing may be his inability/unwillingness to keep pace with the state of the game:



                      https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...ting-pool.html

                      If the trend continues, BYU will continue to fight for third place in the WCC.
                      I mostly agree with what you're saying, but disagree with the big men thing. Every big man he's coached who had some talent developed it well over time (Davies, Mika, Noah Hartsock) It's harder/unrealistic to expect huge development from someone who doesn't have talent. Another one in between like Nate Austin I think gave us everything he could. Also, it's maybe semantics, but BYU typically has not "fought" for third place. They've almost always landed there with little danger of being overtaken by teams 4-10. And they have taken 2nd a couple of times.
                      Last edited by BlueK; 02-22-2018, 12:01 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by BlueK View Post
                        I mostly agree with what you're saying, but disagree with the big men thing. Every big man he's coached who had some talent developed it well over time (Davies, Mika, Noah Hartsock) It's harder/unrealistic to expect huge development from someone who doesn't have talent. Another one in between like Nate Austin I think gave us everything he could. Also, it's maybe semantics, but BYU typically has not "fought" for third place. They've almost always landed there with little resistance from teams 4-10. And they have taken 2nd a couple of times.
                        Perhaps as a fan base we do expect too much from the bigs Rose has recruited, and that may be mostly due to a lack of talent, but his systems and style of play certainly don't do bigs many favours.

                        It's not a stretch to say they are fighting for third place this season, as much as they were last season. They are one injury away from a losing streak that could drop them to forth or fifth place. That's a minor trend, but perhaps explainable for the fact there has been a high turn around on the roster. That could change with better, broader recruiting efforts. Clarifying my earlier thoughts, I think inability/willingness has more to do with the fact BYU is in the WCC, and it's been harder to attract non Utah County talent to Provo due to conference affiliation.

                        Of course the counter argument to that is Gonzaga and St. Mary's don't seem to have any trouble recruiting internationally. But to be fair, each of those schools have advantages BYU doesn't have: faith-based private schools affiliated with main stream religious traditions, no honour code, and they are located in more appealing locals (minus perceptions about weird Mormon culture etc.). What's more, St Mary's is an annex of the Australian national junior team development program, and Gonzaga is a destination program with a tradition of winning.

                        Could BYU be similar to each of those two programs, in terms of broad recruiting success? Absolutely, but I think that requires a fundamental shift in mind-set and talent finding efforts. Why bother when you believe the talent in your own proximal and cultural back yard is good enough. The problem is, that proximal and cultural back yard talent clearly isn't as good as it has been billed. When it truly is as good as billed, it takes itself and talents to Duke.
                        Last edited by tooblue; 02-22-2018, 01:11 PM.

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                        • Originally posted by old_gregg View Post
                          is that when the express makes it in with that month’s stores?
                          Due in large part to the former driving school at a local university, the Boise area is flush with capable commercial drivers, meaning that the inventory in the valley is, generally, consistently well maintained throughout each month.
                          "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
                          - Goatnapper'96

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by tooblue View Post

                            It's not a stretch to say they are fighting for third place this season, as much as they were last season. They are one injury away from a losing streak that could drop them to forth or fifth place. That's a minor trend, but perhaps explainable for the fact there has been a high turn around on the roster. That could change with better, broader recruiting efforts. Clarifying my earlier thoughts, I think inability/willingness has more to do with the fact BYU is in the WCC, and it's been harder to attract non Utah County talent to Provo due to conference affiliation.
                            Then again, we never have fallen to fourth or fifth. And you can't really say injuries haven't hit us pretty hard in recent years. In fact, you could flip it the other way and say that many times our injuries have contributed to pushing us down to third where where we could have finished higher had we stayed healthy. Losing Kyle Davis last year at the beginning of the season was a huge setback. And also what if last year Bryant had been at this year's level of health instead of last year's? Now we know what he can do when he's healthy. We had no idea how hampered he was last year.

                            Gonzaga and St Mary's were both really, really good last year, so maybe that doesn't push us above third. But it does get us probably into the real tournament, in which case, conference standing matters a lot less to me.
                            Last edited by BlueK; 02-22-2018, 02:35 PM.

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                            • Originally posted by BlueK View Post
                              Then again, we never have fallen to fourth or fifth. And you can't really say injuries haven't hit us pretty hard in recent years. In fact, you could flip it the other way and say that many times our injuries have contributed to pushing us down to third where where we could have finished higher had we stayed healthy. Losing Kyle Davis last year at the beginning of the season was a huge setback. And also what if last year Bryant had been at this year's level of health instead of last year's? Now we know what he can do when he's healthy. We had no idea how hampered he was last year.

                              Gonzaga and St Mary's were both really, really good last year, so maybe that doesn't push us above third. But it does get us probably into the real tournament, in which case, conference standing matters a lot less to me.
                              Injuries have hit the team, but not on the level of losing someone like Bryant or Childs, in terms of their impact on team success this season. BYU arguably had more depth last year (though maybe losing L.J. Rose was more devastating than we thought). I think if there is any time they could fall to 4th it would be this season.

                              Much like Rose has tried to do this season with his changes to the offence and defence, BYU needs to consider how to adjust recruiting to broaden the proximal and cultural base. BYU will be in the WCC for the foreseeable future. Just as Rose felt it was time to put the team in a better position to improve their chances in the conference tournament, by making offensive and defensive philosophical changes, it's time to make changes to the way BYU recruits. If not, Maybe Lebowski isn't asking an important question too soon.

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                              • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                                Cleveland was actually able to win the conference championship. I bet you that in his worst year he still could have managed to take 3rd place in the WCC. St. Mary's and Gonzaga are very good teams. The rest are dog crap.
                                Cleve spent every flight trying to implement new plays stolen from the last team to beat us. He wasn’t much of a coach.

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