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Thread: Time for Dave Rose to move along?

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    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Default Time for Dave Rose to move along?

    I am starting to think we are going nowhere with Dave Rose. He had a nice run with Jimmer, but seems to have perpetually underachieved since then. His defenses are atrocious. The players don't seem particularly loyal. We would be far better this year with Mika. And many of the players that leave to play elsewhere seem to flourish after leaving. What is most troubling to me this year is that the teams seem to have regressed as the season goes on. That is not an indicator of good coaching.

    Yeah, I get that he has a respectable W/L record and lots of 20-win seasons, but on the rare occasion we make the Big Dance, we almost always flame out in the first round. And perennial 3rd place finishes in the WCC are nothing to brag about.

    I think it is time for him to move on and give someone else a shot. Agree or disagree?
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    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    I am starting to think we are going nowhere with Dave Rose. He had a nice run with Jimmer, but seems to have perpetually underachieved since then. His defenses are atrocious. The players don't seem particularly loyal. We would be far better this year with Mika. And many of the players that leave to play elsewhere seem to flourish after leaving. What is most troubling to me this year is that the teams seem to have regressed as the season goes on. That is not an indicator of good coaching.

    Yeah, I get that he has a respectable W/L record and lots of 20-win seasons, but on the rare occasion we make the Big Dance, we almost always flame out in the first round. And perennial 3rd place finishes in the WCC are nothing to brag about.

    I think it is time for him to move on and give someone else a shot. Agree or disagree?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    No kidding. I guess the Dude is feeling his oats after getting Ty fired.

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    The program does seem to be stagnating, and many of JL's criticism seems valid. I worry about replacing a perennial 20 game winner unless there is a proven winner we can replace him with.
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    Senior Member BigFatMeanie's Avatar
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    I have to agree with the Dude.

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    who replaces him though
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    No kidding. I guess the Dude is feeling his oats after getting Ty fired.
    A more serious take...

    Up until a few years ago, I thought Rose was a great coach. I thought he had a very good good overall approach. Yes, his D was never great. But the emphasis on offense, especially transition offense, and especially three point shooting in transition, worked. It also helped on D because other teams had to drop rebounders to defend transition. I sometimes thought he made personnel choices to favor perimeter offense and defending over post play, and it hurt us at times. But overall through the course of the season, the results proved it was a good plan. imo.

    In the post Jimmer era, something changed. Either we didn't have the right players. Or opponents figured out how to neutralize our strengths. Or the game changed a little such that his strategy wasn't as effective. He went to zone defense, which I never liked, that never could defend the 3, and was only effective if opponents were randomly cold shooting. We never guarded anyone out of it. Then also, the LP3 came, and Emery and Haws frankly appear to be out of control and uncoachable. That hurt. He went to a post based offense last year with Mika, but it didn't turn out to be all that effective, despite Mika being awesome.

    Maybe the cancer recovery was difficult. Maybe he just felt like he couldn't connect to what was working anymore. But in what seems like a crazy thing for a successful coach to do, he hires Schroyer and turns over both the offense and defense to him. So weird. Schroyer has been an effective coach in the past, but there's a reason he's now bouncing around in the assistant coaching world. So in what seems like a desperate move given the past success and experience of Rose, he turns it all over to Schroyer. Now it seems the coaching level is even a step below what it's been the last couple years.

    What to do now? No idea. I don't want him fired. But I'm not really against the encouraging of Rose to retire gracefully I guess at this point.

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    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    No kidding. I guess the Dude is feeling his oats after getting Ty fired.
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    Omg. Disloyal pricks.


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    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    Be careful what you wish for.
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    Senior Member Omaha 680's Avatar
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    This would be fine if we were anyone else but as o_g said who is up next? Football proved what we should know with our coaching candidate pool: that it can get much much worse.

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    i guess you could get pope. not sure schroyer is an option.
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    Senior Member Blueintheface's Avatar
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    John Dehlin.
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    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueintheface View Post
    John Dehlin.
    Good thinking. He could develop very offensive strategies while still being very defensive.
    "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
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    Senior Member Blueintheface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelado View Post
    Good thinking. He could develop very offensive strategies while still being very defensive.
    "Either evolution or intelligent design can account for the athlete, but neither can account for the sports fan." - Robert Brault

    "Once I seen the trades go down and the other guys signed elsewhere," he said, "I knew it was my time now." - Derrick Favors

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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    i guess you could get pope. not sure schroyer is an option.
    I don't think Pope is an upgrade.
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    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Does anyone have a list of D1 coaches that are mormon?


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    Board eye candy beefytee's Avatar
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    Count me in the "do not run Rose out of town" camp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beefytee View Post
    Count me in the "do not run Rose out of town" camp.

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    I agree. I would prefer a review of potential upgrades, with a focus upon recruiting.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    I agree. I would prefer a review of potential upgrades, with a focus upon recruiting.
    Rose has been a good recruiter.
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    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    Rose has been a good recruiter.
    Yes indeed. Imagine where this program would be without Jabari Parker and Frank Jackson.
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    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Yes indeed. Imagine where this program would be without Jabari Parker and Frank Jackson.
    Without them, we probably wouldn't have even made the NCAA tournament for each of the last few seasons.
    "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
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    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Default Time for Dave Rose to move along?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelado View Post
    Without them, we probably wouldn't have even made the NCAA tournament for each of the last few seasons.
    We would probably be third place each year in the WCC, and losing to teams in high school gyms! Can you imagine? (shudder)
    Last edited by Jeff Lebowski; 02-19-2018 at 06:47 PM.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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    a.k.a. K-dog KillerDog's Avatar
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    I think Dave is the best coach to ever coach at BYU. Look at our historic program with fresh eyes and see what he has done then tell me he should leave. The fact is LDS talent is not good in hoop despite opinions that it is. Add to it that Rose single handedly raised the money for the b-ball annex and for every scholarship in perpetuity and I think he deserves to be able to leave on his own terms. I think he leaves after two more years either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Yes indeed. Imagine where this program would be without Jabari Parker and Frank Jackson.
    No one else would have landed those guys, especially Parker.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDog View Post
    I think Dave is the best coach to ever coach at BYU. Look at our historic program with fresh eyes and see what he has done then tell me he should leave. The fact is LDS talent is not good in hoop despite opinions that it is. Add to it that Rose single handedly raised the money for the b-ball annex and for every scholarship in perpetuity and I think he deserves to be able to leave on his own terms. I think he leaves after two more years either way.
    I didn't know about Dave's efforts to raise the money for the basketball annex. He should be allowed to leave on his own terms.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    No one else would have landed those guys, especially Parker.
    Disagree. I personally told Holmoe about Jabari when he was 10. His mom is a huge BYU fan. They had a legit shot at Jabari. BYU mishandled Chris and it completely ruined the relationship. Then Jabari looks to be a legit prospect, Chris gets home from his mission and BYU coaches ask him if they could come out and see him work out. They get to the church gym and completely ignore Chris and try to get Jabari to run drills for them. That was the end. Sonny was upset and Chris was humiliated. Chris wasn’t a D1 prospect but treating him differently and allowing him a walk-on spot would have dramatically improved BYU’s position with both Sonny and Jabari. The Parkers dislike Rose and they still were in it. That’s how big of a BYU fan Jabari’s mom is.
    Last edited by CJF; 02-19-2018 at 10:54 PM.
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    Explosivo Commando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJF View Post
    Disagree. I personally told Holmoe about Jabari when he was 10. His mom is a huge BYU fan. They had a legit shot at Jabari. BYU mishandled Chris and it completely ruined the relationship. Then Jabari looks to be a legit prospect, Chris gets home from his mission and BYU coaches ask him if they could come out and see him work out. They get to the church gym and completely ignore Chris and try to get Jabari to run drills for them. That was the end. Sonny was upset and Chris was humiliated. Chris wasn’t a D1 prospect but treating him differently and allowing him a walk-on spot would have dramatically improved BYU’s position with both Sonny and Jabari. The Parkers dislike Rose and they still were in it. That’s how big of a BYU fan Jabari’s mom is.
    In fairness, BYU mishandles a lot of relationships. Not just athletes.
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    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDog View Post
    I think Dave is the best coach to ever coach at BYU. Look at our historic program with fresh eyes and see what he has done then tell me he should leave. The fact is LDS talent is not good in hoop despite opinions that it is. Add to it that Rose single handedly raised the money for the b-ball annex and for every scholarship in perpetuity and I think he deserves to be able to leave on his own terms. I think he leaves after two more years either way.
    Aha. The old lack-of-LDS-talent argument. Do you think Rose has fully developed the talents of the athletes recruited to BYU?

    Rose single-handedly raised all that money? I call BS on that.

    You are right, Rose has done a lot for the program and shouldn't be fired. But until he retires or moves along somehow, get used to underachievement.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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    I don't know what the answer is, but any time the subject of a potential new HC gets brought up, it is painful to be reminded of BYU's exceedingly limited pool of possible candidates.
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