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  • #1

    Brother Brigham was one interesting cat

    I am currently reading the John G. Turner bio on Brigham Young.

    https://www.amazon.com/Brigham-Young...oung+biography

    Really fascinating stuff. I thought it might be fun to share a few excerpts as I go. I ran across this tidbit the other day:

    In his later recollections he described himself as a fiercely independent and somewhat headstrong young man. “I Am naturally opposed to being crowded,” he later commented, “and am opposed to any person who undertakes to force me to do this or not do that.” As a young man he both refused to drink and refused to sign a temperance pledge, even when his father urged him to do the latter. “No sir,” he replied, “If I sign the temperance pledge, I feel that I am bound, and I wish to do just right without being bound to do it.”
    In other words .... (wait for it) .... Brigham Young refused to sign an honor code.

    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster
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  • #2
    Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    I am currently reading the John G. Turner bio on Brigham Young.

    https://www.amazon.com/Brigham-Young...oung+biography

    Really fascinating stuff. I thought it might be fun to share a few excerpts as I go. I ran across this tidbit the other day:



    In other words .... (wait for it) .... Brigham Young refused to sign an honor code.

    Let me know if the biography has anything about his whiskey distillery and whiskey street. I think more information on that would be fascinating.
    As I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
    --Kendrick Lamar

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    • #3
      I read that book a while back. Fascinating history but I don’t remember a lot of specifics other than him swearing a ton and ordering the chasing (sometimes killing) of the native Americans in the salt lake valley. I did come away from the book thinking that he was the perfect person to run the church through that time in spite of his personal faults (racism, etc) and some abhorrent actions. Hey, prophets aren’t perfect, right?


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
        I am currently reading the John G. Turner bio on Brigham Young.

        https://www.amazon.com/Brigham-Young...oung+biography

        Really fascinating stuff. I thought it might be fun to share a few excerpts as I go. I ran across this tidbit the other day:



        In other words .... (wait for it) .... Brigham Young refused to sign an honor code.

        Does this book give any insight what he was thinking to do with the steam engine that he was attempted to acquire? My guess is he wanted a steam boat so he could cruise around on the great salt lake... Hmm, I wonder if Shaka is related to BY.
        "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
        "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
        "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
        GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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        • #5
          I read 'American Moses' while at BYU. Back then I think it was considered the definitive BY work. I wonder how it stacks up to the Turner biography.

          When I read it, I had a similar reaction to Moliere's. Kind of like, he may have been an SOB, but he was the Lord's SOB! By the way, is it OK to pass judgment on him now? I mean, most of us agree he was a terribly flawed man and church president. What doctrine or governing philosophy of his has the church not rejected? I understand the variably-shaded blinders that many have with Joseph Smith, but we're good with the harsh verdict on BY, right?
          "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
          "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
          - SeattleUte

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Northwestcoug View Post
            I read 'American Moses' while at BYU. Back then I think it was considered the definitive BY work. I wonder how it stacks up to the Turner biography.

            When I read it, I had a similar reaction to Moliere's. Kind of like, he may have been an SOB, but he was the Lord's SOB! By the way, is it OK to pass judgment on him now? I mean, most of us agree he was a terribly flawed man and church president. What doctrine or governing philosophy of his has the church not rejected? I understand the variably-shaded blinders that many have with Joseph Smith, but we're good with the harsh verdict on BY, right?

            It is not okay to criticize leaders even if the criticism is valid.
            As I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
            --Kendrick Lamar

            Comment

            • #7
              Does the book talk about why he wanted to create a whole new alphabet and language? Was there really a problem with communication in the Salt Lake Valley? The SL Trib called BY illiterate in his obit; why would BY value letters and communication when he had no need for it?

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by Northwestcoug View Post
                I read 'American Moses' while at BYU. Back then I think it was considered the definitive BY work. I wonder how it stacks up to the Turner biography.

                When I read it, I had a similar reaction to Moliere's. Kind of like, he may have been an SOB, but he was the Lord's SOB! By the way, is it OK to pass judgment on him now? I mean, most of us agree he was a terribly flawed man and church president. What doctrine or governing philosophy of his has the church not rejected? I understand the variably-shaded blinders that many have with Joseph Smith, but we're good with the harsh verdict on BY, right?
                What doctrine or governing philosophy of his has the church not rejected? Here is a list for starters, I'm sure others can come up with more:

                Continued expansion of temple building. With the construction of the Endowment House in SLC and his control over the administration of the ordinances, BY probably has had as much lasting influence on the current temple ceremony as JS has.
                Migration west
                The way succession of prophets currently works
                Perpetual Emigration Fund (concept brought back recently in the Perpetual Education Fund)
                Global expansion of missionary work and publishing the BoM in multiple languages
                Church-owned businesses such as Deseret News, ZCMI, etc.
                Relief Society (reorganized under BY)
                Young Men
                Young Women
                The great BYU itself
                Primary
                Pearl of Great Price accepted as a standard work

                I wouldn't agree with the statement that he was a terribly flawed man or a terribly flawed church president. He definitely had flaws but I'm not sure he was any more flawed than the the rest of us. If we faced the same responsibilities and challenges as he did our flaws might be as evident as his but probably not greater or less than his.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by Uncle Ted View Post
                  Does this book give any insight what he was thinking to do with the steam engine that he was attempted to acquire? My guess is he wanted a steam boat so he could cruise around on the great salt lake... Hmm, I wonder if Shaka is related to BY.
                  Originally posted by Katy Lied View Post
                  Does the book talk about why he wanted to create a whole new alphabet and language? Was there really a problem with communication in the Salt Lake Valley? The SL Trib called BY illiterate in his obit; why would BY value letters and communication when he had no need for it?
                  Originally posted by mpfunk View Post
                  Let me know if the biography has anything about his whiskey distillery and whiskey street. I think more information on that would be fascinating.
                  These are great questions. I will return and report!
                  "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                  "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                  "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BigFatMeanie View Post
                    What doctrine or governing philosophy of his has the church not rejected? Here is a list for starters, I'm sure others can come up with more:

                    Continued expansion of temple building. With the construction of the Endowment House in SLC and his control over the administration of the ordinances, BY probably has had as much lasting influence on the current temple ceremony as JS has.
                    Migration west
                    The way succession of prophets currently works
                    Perpetual Emigration Fund (concept brought back recently in the Perpetual Education Fund)
                    Global expansion of missionary work and publishing the BoM in multiple languages
                    Church-owned businesses such as Deseret News, ZCMI, etc.
                    Relief Society (reorganized under BY)
                    Young Men
                    Young Women
                    The great BYU itself
                    Primary
                    Pearl of Great Price accepted as a standard work

                    I wouldn't agree with the statement that he was a terribly flawed man or a terribly flawed church president. He definitely had flaws but I'm not sure he was any more flawed than the the rest of us. If we faced the same responsibilities and challenges as he did our flaws might be as evident as his but probably not greater or less than his.
                    We need a mic drop smiley.
                    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      I had a credit on audible, so I ordered it today. Thanks for the recommendation.
                      Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

                      "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Green Monstah View Post
                        I had a credit on audible, so I ordered it today. Thanks for the recommendation.
                        I share an audible account with my wife and daughter. My daughter read (listened to) it first, then my wife. They both processed it fine, but my wife got more worked up about the more gritty history than my daughter. It was kind of funny.
                        "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                        "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                        "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Uncle Ted View Post
                          Does this book give any insight what he was thinking to do with the steam engine that he was attempted to acquire? My guess is he wanted a steam boat so he could cruise around on the great salt lake... Hmm, I wonder if Shaka is related to BY.
                          No relation but great minds thing alike.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            I like Brigham Young despite the nagging feeling he wouldn't be a fan of mine at all...
                            "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BigFatMeanie View Post
                              What doctrine or governing philosophy of his has the church not rejected? Here is a list for starters, I'm sure others can come up with more:

                              Continued expansion of temple building. With the construction of the Endowment House in SLC and his control over the administration of the ordinances, BY probably has had as much lasting influence on the current temple ceremony as JS has.
                              Migration west
                              The way succession of prophets currently works
                              Perpetual Emigration Fund (concept brought back recently in the Perpetual Education Fund)
                              Global expansion of missionary work and publishing the BoM in multiple languages
                              Church-owned businesses such as Deseret News, ZCMI, etc.
                              Relief Society (reorganized under BY)
                              Young Men
                              Young Women
                              The great BYU itself
                              Primary
                              Pearl of Great Price accepted as a standard work

                              I wouldn't agree with the statement that he was a terribly flawed man or a terribly flawed church president. He definitely had flaws but I'm not sure he was any more flawed than the the rest of us. If we faced the same responsibilities and challenges as he did our flaws might be as evident as his but probably not greater or less than his.
                              Counter-argument: he also founded the University of Deseret, to his everlasting ignominy.
                              "Seriously, is there a bigger high on the whole face of the earth than eating a salad?"--SeattleUte
                              "The only Ute to cause even half the nationwide hysteria of Jimmermania was Ted Bundy."--TripletDaddy
                              This is a tough, NYC broad, a doctor who deals with bleeding organs, dying people and testicles on a regular basis without crying."--oxcoug
                              "I'm not impressed (and I'm even into choreography . . .)"--Donuthole
                              "I too was fortunate to leave with my same balls."--byu71

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