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  • Workplace discrimination question

    I was in a meeting the other day at work. It was not a large group, just 3 of us. One of the 3 is an officer of our company and questioned whether or not a certain individual was active in the church. Once it was determined that he was not (deduced by the same person asking the question), he then rhetorically asked the question "Well then why did we hire him?".

    Possibly unbeknownst to him, I am not all that active in the church. Many people know this, and I believe he knows as well (I think he likes to drop little snide reminders to me of how evil I am). At any rate, I am concerned about my employment at this company and I really do think it is possible that I may get fired someday for trumped up reasons, but really because I don't fit the mold of the typical LDS that make up the leadership ranks of this company.

    What should I do to protect myself? I sent myself an email detailing the events of the meeting, but just to myself so I could have it in case I need it someday. I worry that if I talk to HR, I just shine a light on myself and just increase the odds they'll fish for reasons to get rid of me.

    Any advice? For the record, on other occasions I have heard other executives make disparaging remarks about gays, etc. This company is truly stuck in the 1950's.
    Last edited by Mr Bean; 01-28-2018, 08:41 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Mr Bean View Post
    I was in a meeting the other day at work. It was not a large group, just 3 of us. One of the 3 is an officer of our company and questioned whether or not a certain individual was active in the church. Once it was determined that he was not (deduced by the same person asking the question), he then rhetorically asked the question "Well then why did we hire him?".

    Possibly unbeknownst to him, I am not all that active in the church. Many people know this, and I believe he knows as well (I think he likes to drop little snide reminders to me of how evil I am). At any rate, I am concerned about my employment at this company and I really do think it is possible that I may get fired someday for trumped up reasons, but really because I don't fit the mold of the typical LDS that make up the leadership ranks of this company.

    What should I do to protect myself? I sent myself an email detailing the events of the meeting, but just to myself so I could have it in case I need it someday. I worry that if I talk to HR, I just shine a light on myself and just increase the odds they'll fish for reasons to get rid of me.

    Any advice? For the record, on other occasions I have heard other executives make disparaging remarks about gays, etc. This company is truly stuck in the 1950's.
    As an HR professional I would tell you that what you are experiencing is not legal. Religion is one of the 12 types of discrimination enforced by the EEOC. (Here in California there are MANY more types, but I digress). His language and behavior, as you describe it, is discrimination based on religion. You are well within your rights to bring this to light. You are legally protected against retaliation, so even if you were to get fired you will most likely be looking at a large sum of money coming your way. Bottom line is that what your boss is doing is not legal. Your company should be placed on notice and HR should investigate this at the very minimum. This is a matter that is not only protecting you, but also your coworkers and the company itself.

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    • #3
      challenge him to a fight in the parking lot after work.
      Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

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      • #4
        Scientologists do this all the time to employees who become declared Suppressive Persons. Employers receive notification from the church that their employee is not in good standing, and then the employer starts documenting how the employee is screwing up. Then the boss and every other employee lie through their teeth about how bad the employee is. Commendations in personnel files disappear overnight. Paperwork is revised and postdated.

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        • #5
          Looks like it’s time to start looking for a job outside of the CoB.


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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          • #6
            Originally posted by originalsocal View Post
            As an HR professional I would tell you that what you are experiencing is not legal. Religion is one of the 12 types of discrimination enforced by the EEOC. (Here in California there are MANY more types, but I digress). His language and behavior, as you describe it, is discrimination based on religion. You are well within your rights to bring this to light. You are legally protected against retaliation, so even if you were to get fired you will most likely be looking at a large sum of money coming your way. Bottom line is that what your boss is doing is not legal. Your company should be placed on notice and HR should investigate this at the very minimum. This is a matter that is not only protecting you, but also your coworkers and the company itself.
            There is almost zero chance the other person in this meeting would stick his neck out for me if he were asked to confirm the events as i described them. If I did come forward, HR would likely interview both of them and both would surely vehemently deny it and it would be my word against 2. Doesn't seem like a fight worth taking up; unless I already have a landing spot ready to move on to. Sounds like it's time to start looking for a new job.

            Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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            • #7
              I think what you're doing, documenting it, is about all that you can do for now. I would keep a written copy of the incident reports at home where they're safe. Write down dates and times. Use it as evidence of unlawful termination if/when it comes to that.

              It's too bad that you're working at a place so out of touch with the current world. Have you been there long? How hard will it be to find another job? It sounds to me like there is a good chance they'll start gathering evidence on you if being semi-active in the church is grounds - in their opinion - of being fired. Keep your own notes and bring a lawsuit against them when it happens, if you feel that's what you need to do. At least that will have the effect of the government letting them know that what they're doing is now considered wrong. It might help out others that work there. Meanwhile, keep your resume up to date and start searching privately for another job.


              I went through sort of the opposite situation the last time I worked in Utah. We had an officer of the company who was a return missionary who had turned anti-church. There was a "Black Friday" event where about 20 of us were called into a special meeting and told that we would all be leaving the company starting immediately, then we were treated sort of like criminals after that, not being able to say goodbye to anybody else and being escorted to gather our personal possessions. Many in that group, like me, were obviously active church members.

              Although it was very unpleasant at the time, in hindsight it was the absolute best time that it could have happened, because the high tech industry was begging for good people back then. I picked the top four companies that I thought I would like to work for, got interviews with all of them, and got job offers from all of them. The only hard part was having to move to California, which I had been trying to figure out how to do for years. I'm way better off now than if I had been able to stay at that company.

              I sort of put together an e-mail newsletter of former employees of that company where we compared experiences. Some people had unkind things to say about some of the people running the old company and eventually officers of the company got copies and read it. The president of the company contacted an officer of the new company I was working for and they asked me to end it, which I did. It was pretty pathetic, but once it started to affect others where I was working I "ceased and desisted".

              A few other people left that company in the following months specifically because of what happened to us, wondering who could be next. One of those, who was a manager, said that he had told them (and later me) that he felt we had enough evidence for an unlawful termination lawsuit if we wanted to go that route. None of us did, because we all had better jobs just a few months later.

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              • #8
                As long as you have some emergency cash on hand, I'd report it. If you ever get fired for fake reasons, you can play the retaliation card. As long as you can float yourself for a few months to find a new job, I don't think there's a ton of downside.
                Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

                "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Green Monstah View Post
                  As long as you have some emergency cash on hand, I'd report it. If you ever get fired for fake reasons, you can play the retaliation card. As long as you can float yourself for a few months to find a new job, I don't think there's a ton of downside.
                  Easy for you to say.
                  "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                  "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                  "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Green Monstah View Post
                    As long as you have some emergency cash on hand, I'd report it. If you ever get fired for fake reasons, you can play the retaliation card. As long as you can float yourself for a few months to find a new job, I don't think there's a ton of downside.
                    I think this is bad advice. If you have ownership/management that is acting unethically/illegally, find a better job and move on. You might be able to get the attorneys to force them to keep you employed, but do you want to work in a place where there was bad behavior to start and now add animosity?
                    Last edited by snowcat; 01-29-2018, 08:36 AM.
                    One of the grandest benefits of the enlightenment was the realization that our moral sense must be based on the welfare of living individuals, not on their immortal souls. Honest and passionate folks can strongly disagree regarding spiritual matters, so it's imperative that we not allow such considerations to infringe on the real happiness of real people.

                    Woot

                    I believe religion has much inherent good and has born many good fruits.
                    SU

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                    • #11
                      If it were me, I'd get an app that records everything, then save important conversations. I'm not sure what state you're in, but that's legal in Utah.

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                      • #12
                        Pretty dumb thing for an exec to say. I would keep notes, including names of other employees that could corroborate your story. You could make an accusation, but chances are that they could easily fire you or make your life miserable and find reasons other than religion to state why they're doing it. Most companies are in business to make money not provide jobs to Mormons and exclude non-Mormons. If nothing else is going wrong in your job, I wouldn't worry much about getting fired even if they come to find you are not active LDS.

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                        • #13
                          PS, you seem to be describing a company that's at least >20 companies, ie multiple officers of the company, separate HR function, etc. I'm kind of shocked any company that large would have a hiring plan of only hiring active LDS. My company never got bigger than six employees, and I'm based in Utah County, and it would have constrained me significantly to have a plan like that in place. Weird.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                            Easy for you to say.
                            What makes it easy is that I've seen people who were able to get really large settlements for retaliation. I've also seen people labeled "untouchable" because they filed complaints, and they were able to coast along for years collecting a fantastic paycheck and worrying very little that they'd be let go.

                            The key is having the ability to live for a few months without a job (still susceptible to non-performance layoffs...and these folks just might be stupid enough to retaliate).
                            Last edited by Green Monstah; 01-29-2018, 07:48 AM.
                            Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

                            "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Green Monstah View Post
                              What makes it easy is that I've seen people who were able to get really large settlements for retaliation. I've also seen people labeled "untouchable" because they filed complaints, and they were able to coast along for years collecting a fantastic paycheck and worrying very little that they'd be let go.

                              The key is having the ability to live for a few months without a job (still susceptible to non-performance layoffs...and these folks just might be stupid enough to retaliate).
                              So a guy with zero skin in the game knows some people who were able to successfully sue their employers? OK, I am convinced. Nothing could possibly go wrong.
                              "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                              "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                              "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                              Comment

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