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Thread: 9 AM Press Conference

  1. #211
    Senior Member UVACoug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    What Oaks & Company seem insensitive to or unaware of is how far general society has moved away from the idea that sex or homosexual sex is sinful. Society has accepted as a norm that sexual activity is normal and healthy, not inherently sinful unless within the bounds of straight marriage. And they have no explanation why people are oriented in a same sex manner. Without an explanation for such a basic human condition but while remaining so adamant that you must behave in a manner contrary to your core nature seems harsh, hateful and inconsiderate. It just seems to simplify why some people should be denied a basic human need without any help or compassion.

    Did you see the Reddit secreted videos of Oaks? I'll admit the way they came out was under-handed and wouldn't recommend anybody do that, but in some of the footage I saw, Oaks had a weird line of question from this "expert" on the "gay agenda."
    I guess I don't really understand what you are trying to say. Is "Oaks & Company" supposed to move away from what the Church has taught (and what they believe God has taught) because society disagrees with them? If you're just trying to explain why some would find what Oaks teaches to be intolerant and hateful, I certainly understand that. But I don't understand at all the critique that Oaks and the Church leadership as a whole are wrong not to have "evolved" with general society on the issue. I can certainly understand how someone could disagree with the Church's stance on homosexual behavior being sinful and find their teachings to be intolerant. I can't understand how anyone could expect the Church, or any of its leaders, to simply throw out decades (if not centuries) of established doctrine because of relatively recent developments in the views of "general society." I would reject the Church in a heartbeat if that happened, even though it would probably make my life much easier.

    I haven't seen the Reddit videos. I'll look them up. If they are anything like Oak's "incredibly divisive" talk from last conference, I'm guessing I'll be underwhelmed.

  2. #212
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    Did you reject the Church after decades of talks claiming Blacks could not have the priesthood?
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    Did you reject the Church after decades of talks claiming Blacks could not have the priesthood?
    Do you have a number on those talks? Or even an example?
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    Do you have a number on those talks? Or even an example?
    I have read them, and you could research them if you so wished, starting with Brigham Young up through Mark E. Peterson if you so wished. But no I didn't bother to archive them once SWK changed the policy. In any event, here is one I remember, and I will provide you different ones when I have a break.

    http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/...dandblacks.htm
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    Do you have a number on those talks? Or even an example?
    Here is a link to a Mark E. Peterson discussion and talk.

    http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/Mark-E...Race-Relations
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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    Orson Pratt taught blacks were less valiant.

    Matthew Bowman (2012). The Mormon People. Random House. p. 176.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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    It appeared as early as 1908 in the Liahona.

    Harris, Matthew L.; Bringhurst, Newell G. (2015). The Mormon Church and Blacks: A Documentary History. Chicago: University of Illinois Press. ISBN 978-0-252-08121-7.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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    Joseph Fielding Smith supported the idea in his 1931 book The Way to Perfection, stating that the priesthood restriction on black was a "punishment" for actions in the pre-existence.

    Terryl L. Givens; Reid L. Neilson (12 August 2014). The Columbia Sourcebook of Mormons in the United States. Columbia University Press. p. 246. ISBN 978-0-231-14942-6. "that the Negro race, for instance, have been placed under restrictions because of their attitude in the world of spirits, few will doubt. It cannot be looked upon as just that they should be deprived of the power of the Priesthood without it being a punishment for some act, or acts, performed before they were born."
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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    Those were the samples I found upon a quick search.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

  10. #220
    Strikes and Gutters chrisrenrut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UVACoug View Post
    I'm sorry to dominate this thread, but I wanted to add one thing. As many of you know, I am gay. Shortly after I came out to my parents (about a year after getting back from my mission), the Church published this interview with Elder Oaks and Elder Wickman regarding "Same-Gender Attraction" (their term):

    https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/artic...der-attraction

    At the time, I was still trying to figure out exactly how to reconcile my testimony (strong at the time) with my sexual attraction to men. I can't tell you how comforting this "interview" was for me--especially the comments made by Elder Oaks. I think my legalistic mind is naturally inclined to appreciate Elder Oaks' manner of speaking, but the very simple way in which he laid out the doctrine in this interview really made me feel like I could find a way to reconcile my testimony and sexual orientation and find a place in the Church. And, sincerely, it made me feel loved and understood by God and by Church leaders. I felt at the time (and now) that Elder Oaks had been inspired to say these things directly for my benefit. This part, in particular, was comforting:



    I have a cousin who had come out shortly before I did who was basically disowned by his family (interestingly, his family has since embraced him and left the Church). My parents did not react the same way, but at the time the interview really gave me some comfort on that issue anyways.

    Having re-read this interview this morning, I can see that there are numerous things that were said, even in the excerpt I quoted above, that funk (and people that share his views) could easily characterize as bigoted, hateful, and intolerant. And honestly, given my changed perspective, I might agree that some of the way things are framed in the interview could have been said in a more sensitive, loving manner.

    But when the interview came out, I remember feeling like it represented a pretty significant sea-change in the way the Church was approaching the LBGT "issue." Not that it was that inconsistent with prior teaching, but just that the Church was talking about it at all, let alone in such a nuanced manner.

    Thus, I find the idea that President Oaks is a bigoted, intolerant hardliner that was put in the First Presidency to stamp out any semblance of tolerance for gay people that might have been fostered by President Uchtdorf to be beyond laughable. And the idea that a general conference talk where Oaks literally just read the Family Proclamation from the pulpit is irrefutable proof of his profound hatred for the LGBT community falls far short of passing the smell test.
    Thanks for sharing your perspective and thoughts. Very helpful to me to hear your insights.

  11. #221
    Invisible Swordsman DrumNFeather's Avatar
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    DFU gets his assignments: https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/artic...elder-uchtdorf

    The assignments given to Elder Uchtdorf include chair of the Missionary Executive Council, chair of the Correlation Executive Council and the primary contact for the Europe and Europe East Areas.
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    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  12. #222
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    Those were the samples I found upon a quick search.
    Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post

    lol. I can already hear the Dehlinite spin: "Elder U, go down and learn how correlation works in the Church. Once you have a better understanding of correlation, maybe then you'll be ready for the First Presidency."
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  14. #224
    Invisible Swordsman DrumNFeather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuthole View Post

    lol. I can already hear the Dehlinite spin: "Elder U, go down and learn how correlation works in the Church. Once you have a better understanding of correlation, maybe then you'll be ready for the First Presidency."
    I'm ready for a "Teachings of Dieter" lesson manual...Chapter One: Hair Care.
    "They're good. They've always been good" - David Shaw.

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

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    Senior Member Eddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    When I read "DFU" in these threads, for some reason in my brain I always hear it come out the same way Goatnapper uses "TFD" or "JFM".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    He has handled it beautifully. I love him.
    Lift where you stand.

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    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Pres Nelson’s wife is 26 years younger than him. I guess that not as weird as it sounds when you are talking about people past their 60s but I had no idea of the age difference until this morning.


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  18. #228
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    Those were the samples I found upon a quick search.
    My understanding of the blacks and priesthood issue was that it was always taught that eventually the ban would be lifted. Many Church leaders offered ideas or explanations for why the ban existed. From what I read on the official church essay on the subject it claims that the Church has officially disavowed all of the various explanations seeking to answer the why. The Church has not, and I am not expecting it will, come out and said that President Brigham Young was wrong but I think it is pretty clear that it allows the individual to believe that should they so choose to and that believing President Young erred is not any form of heresy.

    I can see a lot of things changing in the LDS Church but I don't see it becoming Church policy/doctrine/practice that gay marriage, and all the physical intimacy that usually follows within the bonds of marriage, is recognized of God as a good idea. But if it does change I am pretty sure I will just roll with it - baby!
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  19. #229
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    I honestly have no idea. It's more likely than not that he agrees with the November policy and the official LDS stance on LGBT issues. But there's quite a few members who sincerely want him to be more
    progressive than Nelson or Oaks. He continually gives inspiring talks that don't focus on the church governance, and so they hope his talks reflect a progressive mentality.



    Again, we are all conjecturing about who and where in the spectrum church leadership lies. And I have no knowledge about anyone's belief. I'm just contributing to the CS parlor game of where the leadership resides on the LGBT spectrum. Who knows, maybe Bednar is a closet liberal!

    If there is a difference of opinion in leadership, we shouldn't be surprised. It's pretty clear there were significant differences of opinion in the church's last struggle with social justice, blacks and the priesthood.
    This. Uchtdorf has different experiences and likely a different perspective as a result. Thus he focusses on less specifics and more big picture type of stuff. The "progressives" like him the most, not really believing they like him just by comparison and a desire to pretend they are open minded causes them to fawn over him, and thusly project their own desires for his beliefs on subjects he doesn't speak on because they aren't his bag. My guess is he doesn't care near as much about LGBTQ issues as much as they would like or he would speak on them. He cares how people treat each other and vocal LGBTQ advocates care more about how people treat LGBTQ folks than how they treat other people.
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    I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    I agree, from his GC presentations. That said, I had occasion to attend a fairly intimate devotional by President Oaks with a small body of Saints in a remote part of the world. He was very engaging and caring, making sure to mingle among the attendees, greeting them all in person. His remarks were devoid of the standard legalistic approach I normally see in GC. In a way, I was like, "What the hell?"
    Quote Originally Posted by bluegoose View Post
    I had a similar experience about 8 years ago when he was here to re-organize our stake presidency. During the two Saturday stake conference sessions he was very down to earth, personable and engaging. I was cleaning the church that Saturday morning with our kids and he was very grandfatherly when speaking to the little kids. During the small gathering when he set apart the Stake Presidency he was still very loose, relaxed and even a little silly at times. However, during the Sunday morning session of stake conference it was like he flipped a switch and went back into general conference speaking mode. The relaxed, personable Elder Oaks was immediately replaced by the stern, somber, legalistic Elder Oaks.
    My wife and I served in the Winter Quarters Temple Baptistry when DHO's brother was Temple President. (Temple) President and Sister Oaks are some of the best people I have ever met and we will always cherish the time we got to spend serving with them in a small temple. Then-Elder Oaks came to visit the area once; I assume he came mainly to visit his brother, but he also Presided over a Stake Conference and had a separate meeting just for temple workers. The temple worker meeting was somewhat informal. DHO spoke as well as his brother and SIL and DHO took questions. There was a lot of joking and ribbing between the brothers during their talks. I remember specifically noticing how DHO's shoulders bounced when he laughed because he did it so often during his brother's talk. I also remember some funny stories from when DHO was a widower and dating his current wife as an apostle.

    The point is that DHO's mannerisms, speaking style, and interaction with people was so different from what I was used to seeing in GC talks. I'm not one who hates his GC style, but the difference was pretty dramatic. I always knew this in my head, but that meeting was one of the first times I really recognized that what we see in general conference may not be our leaders' real personalities. I think that much like o_g or Walter have board personas that I assume aren't how they act in every day interaction, some church leaders feel the need to present themselves in a certain way at official meetings. I'm not commenting on whether that is a good or a bad thing or which leaders do it more than others, but I do think it's important to acknowledge.
    Last edited by Omaha 680; 01-23-2018 at 09:53 AM.

  21. #231
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Nate Oman argues that DFU could have a bigger impact on the missionary department than he will have on correlation.

    http://nathanoman.com/2018/01/23/why...lly-important/

    We are now in a moment that looks a lot like the early 20th century: low growth rates and the tentative search for new methods and messages. There are lots of starts and stops and the Church as an institution tends to be conservative and risk adverse, but I think that the over all trajectory suggests the search for a new missionary model.

    ...

    And it would seem that for the time being, that finding that model is the job that has been given to Elder Uchtdorf. Hence, I suspect that he will be plenty influential on the Church going forward. That is encouraging.
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  22. #232
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Nate Oman argues that DFU could have a bigger impact on the missionary department than he will have on correlation.

    http://nathanoman.com/2018/01/23/why...lly-important/
    As someone who served in the UK 25 years ago I have long said that, at least for Europe, the big hope of the need for combines rather than sickles is in the migrant/refugee community. The requires a leader who likes to fly!
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  23. #233
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omaha 680 View Post
    My wife and I served in the Winter Quarters Temple Baptistry when DHO's brother was Temple President. (Temple) President and Sister Oaks are some of the best people I have ever met and we will always cherish the time we got to spend serving with them in a small temple. Then-Elder Oaks came to visit the area once; I assume he came mainly to visit his brother, but he also Presided over a Stake Conference and had a separate meeting just for temple workers. The temple worker meeting was somewhat informal. DHO spoke as well as his brother and SIL and DHO took questions. There was a lot of joking and ribbing between the brothers during their talks. I remember specifically noticing how DHO's shoulders bounced when he laughed because he did it so often during his brother's talk. I also remember some funny stories from when DHO was a widower and dating his current wife as an apostle.

    The point is that DHO's mannerisms, speaking style, and interaction with people was so different from what I was used to seeing in GC talks. I'm not one who hates his GC style, but the difference was pretty dramatic. I always knew this in my head, but that meeting was one of the first times I really recognized that what we see in general conference may not be our leaders' real personalities. I think that much like o_g or Walter have board personas that I assume aren't how they act in every day interaction, some church leaders feel the need to present themselves in a certain way at official meetings. I'm not commenting on whether that is a good or a bad thing or which leaders do it more than others, but I do think it's important to acknowledge.
    Since we are talking about DHO's relatives, I had a class at BYU taught by his son, Dallin D. Oaks (I'm guessing I'm not the only one here that can say that). It was an intro linguistics class and it was fantastic. I still remember lots of the things I learned in that class and trot out examples of the history of the English language to kill conversation at parties.

    The point of this boring story is that DDO is a really funny, laid back, even sort of sloppy in his dress and grooming, kind of guy. Quite the juxtaposition with the public persona of his dad. I wonder how much of that sort of person DHO might be in private (probably not the untucked shirt and bed head that DDO often had though).
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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  24. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omaha 680 View Post
    My wife and I served in the Winter Quarters Temple Baptistry when DHO's brother was Temple President. (Temple) President and Sister Oaks are some of the best people I have ever met and we will always cherish the time we got to spend serving with them in a small temple. Then-Elder Oaks came to visit the area once; I assume he came mainly to visit his brother, but he also Presided over a Stake Conference and had a separate meeting just for temple workers. The temple worker meeting was somewhat informal. DHO spoke as well as his brother and SIL and DHO took questions. There was a lot of joking and ribbing between the brothers during their talks. I remember specifically noticing how DHO's shoulders bounced when he laughed because he did it so often during his brother's talk. I also remember some funny stories from when DHO was a widower and dating his current wife as an apostle.

    The point is that DHO's mannerisms, speaking style, and interaction with people was so different from what I was used to seeing in GC talks. I'm not one who hates his GC style, but the difference was pretty dramatic. I always knew this in my head, but that meeting was one of the first times I really recognized that what we see in general conference may not be our leaders' real personalities. I think that much like o_g or Walter have board personas that I assume aren't how they act in every day interaction, some church leaders feel the need to present themselves in a certain way at official meetings. I'm not commenting on whether that is a good or a bad thing or which leaders do it more than others, but I do think it's important to acknowledge.
    dho and i are very similar in lots of ways
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  25. #235
    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    dho and i are very similar in lots of ways
    Who did you date while you were an apostle?
    "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
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  26. #236

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelado View Post
    Who did you date while you were an apostle?
    tried to hit sheri d. but she kept making me wear a wig and lecture about the divine potential of mothers so she could get it up
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  27. #237
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Did clack take over og’s account?


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  28. #238

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    Did clack take over og’s account?


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    No. He didn't google 'Dew', 'wig', and...something else. And then post the pic.

    Which praise the maker, we should all be glad he didn't.

  29. #239

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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    dho and i are very similar in lots of ways
    I agree. Although, I doubt that DHO watches Game of Thrones.
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  30. #240
    Senior Member Clark Addison's Avatar
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    I taught DHO's nephew in the MTC!

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