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Originally posted by creekster View PostI wonder if Uchtdorf really was that progressive. Or was he just able to move forward with the same doctrine and policy in a Christ-like way? I think sometimes Oaks' problem is that he was trained as a lawyer/advocate, so he tends to be plain and seemingly confrontational to make sure his point is clear. But I am not sure just how progressive Uchtdofr really was, although I personally prefer Dieter's style over all the rest.
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Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View PostNobody on this board could be a bigger DFU fan than me, but I didn't see this as any kind of symbolic swipe against his popularity or progressive nature. DHO is next in line to be the prophet. Makes total sense to put him in the presidency. Anyone who sees any meaning beyond that is looking to stir up drama.
Surely some will stir up drama, but the question of whether DFU got "Hugh B. Browned" is an obvious one to ask.I intend to live forever.
So far, so good.
--Steven Wright
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I don't know if I buy completely into all of Jay Santos' theories, but I am probably more open to it than most here. Losing a first counselor is rare enough to think that there may be a reason for it other than "I've sat next to this other guy for the last 30 years". The reason may be very positive, but if it weren't it's not like they would say anything else (understandably).
Obviously I have no inside info, and I may be influenced by the fact that DFU is my favorite apostle and DHO is my least favorite (though I have no real animus toward him).
Also, is no one going to give Hostile clappy hands for his Alvin Dyer/fence sitting reference?
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Originally posted by creekster View PostI wonder if Uchtdorf really was that progressive. Or was he just able to move forward with the same doctrine and policy in a Christ-like way? I think sometimes Oaks' problem is that he was trained as a lawyer/advocate, so he tends to be plain and seemingly confrontational to make sure his point is clear. But I am not sure just how progressive Uchtdofr really was, although I personally prefer Dieter's style over all the rest."There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
"It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
"Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster
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Originally posted by hostile View PostProbably cause they were fence sitters in the pre existence
There you go, Clark."...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
"You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
- SeattleUte
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Originally posted by Moliere View PostWhere is ERCoug to give us the lowdown on how John Dehlin feels about this change?
Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View PostNobody on this board could be a bigger DFU fan than me, but I didn't see this as any kind of symbolic swipe against his popularity or progressive nature. DHO is next in line to be the prophet. Makes total sense to put him in the presidency. Anyone who sees any meaning beyond that is looking to stir up drama.
That being said, the biggest downside of this is that we will likely get to hear fewer DFU talks in GC. Bummer. DHO talks are a little too legalistic for my tastes.
I haven't seen any ex-mo angst, Moliere. Mostly some shrugs and a fair sprinkling of derision. I saw a video posted of the response to white American guys representing a church membership that includes women and people who aren't American, and to be honest, they sort of earned the derision with the tone-deafness of the answer. Otherwise, Nelson isn't very polarizing and people have seen Oaks coming for a while, so...meh. Products of their times.At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
-Berry Trammel, 12/3/10
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Originally posted by USUC View PostI agree with this. I don't think "progressive" and "conservative" is the right way to frame their differences. I see it more as personality differences as opposed to political/philosophical differences. Some people are letter of the law types that focus on purity of process. To deviate from the process is their concern, hence they often focus more on the consequences of deviating from the established path. Some people are better suited to speak about the human experience and love. Personality differences don't necessarily mean there is a philosophical difference.
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Originally posted by Brian View PostWell, the other side of that argument is that plenty of presidents were never in the FP. Including the current president.
Surely some will stir up drama, but the question of whether DFU got "Hugh B. Browned" is an obvious one to ask.
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Originally posted by USUC View PostI agree with this. I don't think "progressive" and "conservative" is the right way to frame their differences. I see it more as personality differences as opposed to political/philosophical differences. Some people are letter of the law types that focus on purity of process. To deviate from the process is their concern, hence they often focus more on the consequences of deviating from the established path. Some people are better suited to speak about the human experience and love. Personality differences don't necessarily mean there is a philosophical difference.
I'll miss DFU mostly because I think he brings a perspective that didn't exist. One of an outsider. He reminded me more of the people I met in France than the Utah Mormons I grew up with. One's not better than the other, but it was nice for the Europeans to have a voice they could more closely relate to...and they'll still have that but not in as high of a capacity. My hope, which is probably in vain, is that the new apostles called will be Causse and then one from south america. But chances are, they'll be white men from the good 'ol USA."Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf
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Originally posted by All-American View PostI just realized something. With President Monson's passing, there has now been 100% turnover in the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve over the course of my lifetime.Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss
There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock
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