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"Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."
Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.
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Originally posted by Northwestcoug View PostWhat I would have given for a national party to rig the nomination against Trump...
Parties can employ whatever rules they want for nomination. It's a private group trying to unite behind someone to run in the general election. They could put up more than one candidate if they wanted to. It's not the same thing as the laws that govern a general election.Last edited by BlueK; 01-11-2018, 06:53 AM.
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Originally posted by BlueK View Post
Parties can employ whatever rules they want for nomination. It's a private group trying to unite behind someone to run in the general election. They could put up more than one candidate if they wanted to. It's not the same thing as the laws that govern a general election.PLesa excuse the tpyos.
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Originally posted by creekster View PostThis is not true. Elections, including primary elections, are typically governed by Voting Rights acts and other federal protections. Moreover, the process once in place cannot be changed on a whim simply because some in power dont like a candidate. That would violate due process and other rights. WHile the general elections are more broadly protected, it is incorrect to say a party can do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, especially in response to a candidate that some of them dont like. This is precisely why what the democrats did for Clinton is improper.
But I do think the nominating process in general in both parties is pretty stupid.Last edited by BlueK; 01-11-2018, 08:38 AM.
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Originally posted by BlueK View PostI didn't say anything about changing things on a whim. Also, did the dems really do that, or do they just have rules in place that allow for superdelegates and other things to stack the deck from the get-go against an outsider type of candidate if they want to? You can argue whether that is fair or not, but they followed their own rules. I am certainly no fan of Clinton, but technically Bernie isn't even a democrat. If he can't even declare himself a member of the party he's seeking the nomination from, does he really have a claim for "fair" treatment? I'm not sure about that. Certainly he was a nicer, more honorable person than Clinton, as wacko as some of his economic ideas are.
But I do think the nominating process in general in both parties is pretty stupid.
Except they can't. They are subject to state and federal laws governing these processes. Could they have set up rules in advance of Trump's appearance to make it less likely he wins? Sure. But they cant do it in the middle of the process, which is what we were talking about.PLesa excuse the tpyos.
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Originally posted by Northwestcoug View PostWhat I would have given for a national party to rig the nomination against Trump..."If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
"I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
"Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!
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Originally posted by Uncle Ted View PostIf you like rigged primaries then the democratic party is the party for you."Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."
Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.
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Originally posted by Northwestcoug View PostEven if it is true that the dems are to blame more than the republicans for Trump (which I, a reasonable person, disagrees with), a sane political party would have done everything it could have to make sure he didn't end up as the candidate. The GOP didn't prevent the nomination of an abject clown. Therefore, the GOP is not a serious political party.
And yes, the democrats nominated Hillary. But she was at least a serious candidate, despite her numerous flaws and ethical shortcomings.
Trump was elected because plenty of people, in the right places, wanted him to be President. To not accept that the absurd election of Donald Trump is not largely rooted in the American electorate rejecting the excesses of his predecessor indicates that you are becoming relatively partisan in your thinking.
I think Trump is an indicator of a huge problem that we, the American people, have. He is the most obvious symptom of our deeper problem and we all share in that. Trump is a great representation of what America has become. Our system was set up with the crazy idea that the most ethical, moral light would be the will of the people. Trump indicates that the people are not so bright anymore.Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
-General George S. Patton
I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
-DOCTOR Wuap
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Originally posted by Goatnapper'96 View PostI think Trump is an indicator of a huge problem that we, the American people, have. He is the most obvious symptom of our deeper problem and we all share in that. Trump is a great representation of what America has become. Our system was set up with the crazy idea that the most ethical, moral light would be the will of the people. Trump indicates that the people are not so bright anymore."Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."
Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.
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Originally posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
I think Trump is an indicator of a huge problem that we, the American people, have. He is the most obvious symptom of our deeper problem and we all share in that. Trump is a great representation of what America has become. Our system was set up with the crazy idea that the most ethical, moral light would be the will of the people. Trump indicates that the people are not so bright anymore."Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied
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Originally posted by Uncle Ted View PostIf you like rigged primaries then the democratic party is the party for you.
Originally posted by Goatnapper'96 View PostI don't think you are as reasonable as you think. In my mind systems matter and I believe that if the Republicans had cheated, broken the rules or whatever it would have taken to accomplish the goal of preventing Trump from winning, i.e. subverting the voting will of the people in our democratic primaries, I would have believed that a greater threat to our democratic system than Trump poses. But you are right if your ideology has led you to conclude that the enlightened few should make the decisions for all by ignoring the laws, rules and historical norms of elections, then the Democrat Party is the more serious national party.
Trump was elected because plenty of people, in the right places, wanted him to be President. To not accept that the absurd election of Donald Trump is not largely rooted in the American electorate rejecting the excesses of his predecessor indicates that you are becoming relatively partisan in your thinking.
I think Trump is an indicator of a huge problem that we, the American people, have. He is the most obvious symptom of our deeper problem and we all share in that. Trump is a great representation of what America has become. Our system was set up with the crazy idea that the most ethical, moral light would be the will of the people. Trump indicates that the people are not so bright anymore.
I stand by my allegation that at this time, the democratic party is the only serious national party right now. Whatever objections about their politics or ethics, their last two presidential candidates were clearly more serious than Trump. I don't think this is even debatable.
I'm saying all this a little TIC, and also with some 'wishful hindsight'. I'm not advocating for any party to subvert the will of the people. I'm on record saying that the nation will survive Trump, but the GOP won't. I do think the GOP really needs to work on their primary process. If it takes some reformatting the states' schedule or even the idea of superdelegates, something has to be done. Among many other problems, there is an unrealistic expectation of republican voters early in the primary process of an easy nationalist immigration policy and an overturning of Roe v. Wade. I wish the GOP had fixed these and other problems in 2016 so the idea of President Trump would have never existed. That's my 'wishful hindsight', for lack of a better term.
Still, there is no denying that a significant proportion of the electorate voted for Trump. And I don't think they are going anywhere. To that point, your last paragraph is dead-on."...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
"You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
- SeattleUte
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Originally posted by Northwestcoug View PostI'm not above a few backroom machinations...
Believe me, I'm super reasonable. Too reasonable, if you ask my wife. She wants to buy a house
I stand by my allegation that at this time, the democratic party is the only serious national party right now. Whatever objections about their politics or ethics, their last two presidential candidates were clearly more serious than Trump. I don't think this is even debatable.
I'm saying all this a little TIC, and also with some 'wishful hindsight'. I'm not advocating for any party to subvert the will of the people. I'm on record saying that the nation will survive Trump, but the GOP won't. I do think the GOP really needs to work on their primary process. If it takes some reformatting the states' schedule or even the idea of superdelegates, something has to be done. Among many other problems, there is an unrealistic expectation of republican voters early in the primary process of an easy nationalist immigration policy and an overturning of Roe v. Wade. I wish the GOP had fixed these and other problems in 2016 so the idea of President Trump would have never existed. That's my 'wishful hindsight', for lack of a better term.
Still, there is no denying that a significant proportion of the electorate voted for Trump. And I don't think they are going anywhere. To that point, your last paragraph is dead-on.
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The Republicans right now have no idea how to be a governing party. That's why after November they won't be anymore for a really long time. The 35% Trump base is great for them, so they think. The problem is they've lost every independent so it's not enough to win elections in swing districts and states. It's going to be a bloodbath in November, which is what they deserve for abandoning their traditional ideas and embracing Trumpism.
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Originally posted by BlueK View PostThe Republicans right now have no idea how to be a governing party. That's why after November they won't be anymore for a really long time. The 35% Trump base is great for them, so they think. The problem is they've lost every independent so it's not enough to win elections in swing districts and states. It's going to be a bloodbath in November, which is what they deserve for abandoning their traditional ideas and embracing Trumpism.
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Originally posted by BlueK View PostThe Republicans right now have no idea how to be a governing party. That's why after November they won't be anymore for a really long time. The 35% Trump base is great for them, so they think. The problem is they've lost every independent so it's not enough to win elections in swing districts and states. It's going to be a bloodbath in November, which is what they deserve for abandoning their traditional ideas and embracing Trumpism.
The GOP'ers buy votes by lowering taxes... (remember when Ronny lowered taxes he won his re-election by one of the largest landslides in history.)
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Either way we will all be screwed in the end. So I'll keep voting for the Libertarian."If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
"I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
"Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!
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