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  • #46
    Originally posted by Topper View Post
    Look at this pie chart.

    https://media.nationalpriorities.org...ending_pie.png

    Debt is 7%, but how many of those are discretionary?
    That's a bad chart for that question because it lumps mandatory and discretionary together. But if In have to answer it's easier to say which are mandatory (the rest are discretionary except debt service which is kind of its own category). Mandatory is most of the bright orange, all but a sliver of the dark blue, veterans benefits, some of food, and some of education. The rest is discretionary which is typically about 35% of the budget give or take.

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    • #47
      Interesting ideas. I'm disagree with some in principle and would debate the effectiveness of others but I like some. Not going to go down the list here because the point is you are making bold proposals which is what is needed from both sides. There isn't a politician willing to say the truth that we are effing broke because no one wants to hear it. Saying "if we just cut the other side's stuff we will be out of trouble" is more palatable and keeps them elected.

      I do take issue with the word greedy, at least for the greatest generation. I don't think they had any idea when they were storming the beaches in Normandy and Iwo Jima that their victory would lead to unprecedented prosperity which would make them and their children far outlive the age that entitlement programs were meant to cover. The blame belongs with those who could reasonably foresee the coming tidal wave and did nothing about it. Saying "the baby boomers" is probably too harsh but blaming it on their politicians is not.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Omaha 680 View Post
        That's a bad chart for that question because it lumps mandatory and discretionary together. But if In have to answer it's easier to say which are mandatory (the rest are discretionary except debt service which is kind of its own category). Mandatory is most of the bright orange, all but a sliver of the dark blue, veterans benefits, some of food, and some of education. The rest is discretionary which is typically about 35% of the budget give or take.
        I would not consider military discretionary.
        "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

        Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Topper View Post
          I would not consider military discretionary.
          Then, as I suspected, you do not understand the definition of discretionary vs mandatory.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by snowcat View Post
            Add pro immigration and you have me. Do you want to start a party?
            I've always been on board the pro-immigration train.
            sigpic
            "Outlined against a blue, gray
            October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
            Grantland Rice, 1924

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Topper View Post
              I would not consider military discretionary.
              in principle I agree with you, but he level of Military spending IS discretionary. Do we really need to spend $632 Billion or will $500B do or do we need $800B

              Just for an example - Do we need 10 Carrier Task Groups or can we get by with 8 or do we need to increase them to 12

              I may be small, but I'm slow.

              A veteran - whether active duty, retired, or national guard or reserve is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to, "The United States of America ", for an amount of "up to and including my life - it's an honor."

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Omaha 680 View Post

                I do take issue with the word greedy, at least for the greatest generation. I don't think they had any idea when they were storming the beaches in Normandy and Iwo Jima that their victory would lead to unprecedented prosperity which would make them and their children far outlive the age that entitlement programs were meant to cover. The blame belongs with those who could reasonably foresee the coming tidal wave and did nothing about it. Saying "the baby boomers" is probably too harsh but blaming it on their politicians is not.
                They elected their politicians. Pro captu electoris, habent sua fata oratori. Or, just, caveat elector, if you like.

                EDIT: My pun should be oratores instead of oratori. The dative plural of orator needs -es.
                Last edited by wuapinmon; 01-10-2018, 06:14 PM.
                "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by cowboy View Post
                  I've always been on board the pro-immigration train.
                  Too bad that's an underground railroad from Reno to Pittsburgh.
                  "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

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                  • #54
                    I am declaring my independence

                    Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                    They elected their politicians. Pro captu electoris, habent sua fata oratori. Or, just, caveat elector, if you like.

                    EDIT: My pun should be oratores instead of oratori. The dative plural of orator needs -es.
                    Man I am really missing triplet here. He would have SLAYED this amusing set up!
                    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by creekster View Post
                      Man I am really missing triplet here. He would have SLAYED this amusing set up!
                      You're right. The dative is oratoribus. I meant nominative. Comedy gold.
                      "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by originalsocal View Post
                        100% agree with this entire thread---except for Uncle Ted. He's weird.
                        I cant vouch for the weirdness of Uncle Ted, but it clearly isn't because of his correct political philosophy.

                        Both of the dominant political parties lack principle and philosophical consistency. They are for whatever is politically expedient for them at the moment. Both parties want to centrally plan the economy and the morality of the country using force.

                        libertarians and classical liberals may disagree on some specifics among themselves, but at the core its a belief that everything that can be done in the private sector, should be done in the private sector. The only moral role of the government is to protect property rights, provide national defense, and dictate the foreign policy of the country. Given today's bloated administrative state, the perfect libertarian paradise is not attainable. But we work to slowly push public policy in that direction. Until a viable floating city in international waters is realized, its our only hope. We just get to go to bed with a clear conscious that only philosophical consistency can provide.

                        A point of clarification, when I say libertarian I mean small "l" libertarian. The Libertarian Party is legitimately full crazy assholes who think its a good idea to strip on stage during their party convention or talk about how they pay for their prostitutes using crypto currency. It's a fringe party that attracts fringe people. Small "l" libertarians work to reform the existing two party system (CATO institute, Reason, Institute for Humane Studies, etc).

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Northwestcoug View Post
                          Even if it is true that the dems are to blame more than the republicans for Trump (which I, a reasonable person, disagrees with), a sane political party would have done everything it could have to make sure he didn't end up as the candidate.
                          Like cheat? Trump won the nomination fair and square. Other than subvert the nomination process, what could be done? He didn't even win a majority of the GOP votes in the primary, so if anyone is to blame it not is the people who voted for him in the primary, but the people who didn't band behind one candidate to beat him. Also, Trump won the general election because of the independents who voted for BO last time and Trump this time. Dems and Republicans always vote for their own party because, by virtue of their party membership, most all of them think anyone from their party is better than the alternative. It's always the independents who make the difference.
                          sigpic
                          "Outlined against a blue, gray
                          October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
                          Grantland Rice, 1924

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by originalsocal View Post
                            The Rudi Party -- it can't fail!!
                            how could you be so rude and reckless?
                            Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by cowboy View Post
                              Like cheat? Trump won the nomination fair and square. Other than subvert the nomination process, what could be done? He didn't even win a majority of the GOP votes in the primary, so if anyone is to blame it not is the people who voted for him in the primary, but the people who didn't band behind one candidate to beat him. Also, Trump won the general election because of the independents who voted for BO last time and Trump this time. Dems and Republicans always vote for their own party because, by virtue of their party membership, most all of them think anyone from their party is better than the alternative. It's always the independents who make the difference.
                              Cowboy, you haven't been a good student of Frank's posts around here... Drumpf won because of the Russian hackers.

                              VdoFRRCT87_kUf4S82HjBhF_uGE8qlVuP6jyqUIT1YE.jpg
                              "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                              "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                              "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                              GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by happyone View Post
                                in principle I agree with you, but he level of Military spending IS discretionary. Do we really need to spend $632 Billion or will $500B do or do we need $800B

                                Just for an example - Do we need 10 Carrier Task Groups or can we get by with 8 or do we need to increase them to 12
                                Here is another example...





                                http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/au...rticle/2645507
                                "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                                "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                                "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                                GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                                Comment

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