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Thread: President Monson has passed away.

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    Thats how you read it; that's not how the primary part of its left of center following would read it. Just ask our old buddy SU what it meant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuskyFreeNorthwest View Post
    I’m fairness I’ve admitted I’m the dumbest guy here many times.
    I thought that was me

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    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    That was a nice write-up.

    I might as well chime in. I never felt a connection to Monson, which is weird because I was a huge Kimball homer, and he and Monson were alike. I absolutely loved Kimball's biography (read it twice!), and I was always moved at how inadequate he felt as an apostle, and how much personal service he gave trying to live up to the task.

    It's weird how a feeling of a personal connection means so much with these things. Erying (I was another homer for him) can't get through a talk without breaking down multiple times, yet that never bothered me. In fact, I admired him even more for it. And he is all about the personal service stories also. But I just never felt 'it' for Monson.

  5. #65
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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  6. #66

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    I'm a little surprised at how strongly people are reacting to the NYT obituary.

    It seems to me that the information in it is a little impersonal, exactly consistent with the way that TSM lived his life - behind the scenes, working hard, not drawing attention to himself. That kind of life doesn't really lend itself to public information that would appear in an obituary written by a secular newspaper. All we really have to go on - from a public point-of-view - is the stuff that happened while TSM was in charge of the LDS church - prop. 8, Ordain Women, etc. Pretty much what the writer included. President/Prophet Monson the human remains largely elusive. I believe this was quite deliberate on Monson's end.

    IMO, people who are getting all irate over this NYT treatment of Monson are missing Monson's greatest lesson.

    What Monson taught me is that it's not about what the world thinks, or how it interprets your actions. It's about trying to do the right thing, helping people who need help, regardless of the photo opportunities or press releases. Monson wasn't an in-the-spotlight kind of guy, he just tried to do the right thing, regardless of "the optics" or how it would play in the press.

    If people wanted to honor Monson's memory, they would STFU, roll up their sleeves, and go and help someone quietly without bragging about it on twitter. Then, they would share a small, anecdotal story about it in a humble sort of way about 40 years later, and not give a rip if it shows up in their obituary some day.
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    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Solon, dude, TSM could wiggle his ears... the NYT obit deliberately excluded that shit.
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    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solon View Post
    I'm a little surprised at how strongly people are reacting to the NYT obituary.

    It seems to me that the information in it is a little impersonal, exactly consistent with the way that TSM lived his life - behind the scenes, working hard, not drawing attention to himself. That kind of life doesn't really lend itself to public information that would appear in an obituary written by a secular newspaper. All we really have to go on - from a public point-of-view - is the stuff that happened while TSM was in charge of the LDS church - prop. 8, Ordain Women, etc. Pretty much what the writer included. President/Prophet Monson the human remains largely elusive. I believe this was quite deliberate on Monson's end.

    IMO, people who are getting all irate over this NYT treatment of Monson are missing Monson's greatest lesson.

    What Monson taught me is that it's not about what the world thinks, or how it interprets your actions. It's about trying to do the right thing, helping people who need help, regardless of the photo opportunities or press releases. Monson wasn't an in-the-spotlight kind of guy, he just tried to do the right thing, regardless of "the optics" or how it would play in the press.

    If people wanted to honor Monson's memory, they would STFU, roll up their sleeves, and go and help someone quietly without bragging about it on twitter. Then, they would share a small, anecdotal story about it in a humble sort of way about 40 years later, and not give a rip if it shows up in their obituary some day.
    You’re making good points. But perhaps reacting a bit strongly to the reaction. I havent ready the NYT article, tbh. I was only comparing the tweets that were posted earlier in the thread. The NYT has a clear POV. And they could have said more or something else. But as you say it’s not surprising what they did say and in general I have no problem with it. TSM was a good guy who loved people. He knew it. God knew it. And we all know that God knows it
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  9. #69
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solon View Post
    I'm a little surprised at how strongly people are reacting to the NYT obituary.

    It seems to me that the information in it is a little impersonal, exactly consistent with the way that TSM lived his life - behind the scenes, working hard, not drawing attention to himself. That kind of life doesn't really lend itself to public information that would appear in an obituary written by a secular newspaper. All we really have to go on - from a public point-of-view - is the stuff that happened while TSM was in charge of the LDS church - prop. 8, Ordain Women, etc. Pretty much what the writer included. President/Prophet Monson the human remains largely elusive. I believe this was quite deliberate on Monson's end.

    IMO, people who are getting all irate over this NYT treatment of Monson are missing Monson's greatest lesson.

    What Monson taught me is that it's not about what the world thinks, or how it interprets your actions. It's about trying to do the right thing, helping people who need help, regardless of the photo opportunities or press releases. Monson wasn't an in-the-spotlight kind of guy, he just tried to do the right thing, regardless of "the optics" or how it would play in the press.

    If people wanted to honor Monson's memory, they would STFU, roll up their sleeves, and go and help someone quietly without bragging about it on twitter. Then, they would share a small, anecdotal story about it in a humble sort of way about 40 years later, and not give a rip if it shows up in their obituary some day.
    Most people I know aren't upset. Just find it odd and a little annoying. I have seen quite a few reactions from non-LDS, so it isn't just a hypersensitive mormon thing.

    99% of the obits you read in a newspaper are written by loved ones and are a celebration of a person's life. When you are a public figure the obit often reads as more of a news article than a traditional obit. That difference in tone can be jarring if it is someone you hold dear.

    That being said, the soft treatment they gave Castro and Hefner is tough to defend.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Most people I know aren't upset. Just find it odd and a little annoying. I have seen quite a few reactions from non-LDS, so it isn't just a hypersensitive mormon thing.

    99% of the obits you read in a newspaper are written by loved ones and are a celebration of a person's life. When you are a public figure the obit often reads as more of a news article than a traditional obit. That difference in tone can be jarring if it is someone you hold dear.

    That being said, the soft treatment they gave Castro and Hefner is tough to defend.
    Speak for yourself. I'm livid. And seething. Livid and seething I say.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  11. #71

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    still the best piece about heft death

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/30/o...gh-hefner.html
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    still the best piece about heft death

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/30/o...gh-hefner.html
    That was pretty awesome. The first sentence remains a favorite of mine among obit openers.

  13. #73
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    still the best piece about heft death

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/30/o...gh-hefner.html
    Yeah, that was brilliant.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
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    Local Character clackamascoug's Avatar
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    I wonder if I can get Douthat to write my obit... that'd be awesome!

    Clack - a simple man from simpler times, left behind in a world he could never catch up to, with only one foot in reality and a mind unfettered with trivial matters like self awareness.
    Last edited by clackamascoug; 01-06-2018 at 03:19 PM.

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  15. #75

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    I have a neighbor that had virus go to brain. Can barely talk. Gets around in wheelchair and ranger. In the hospital walked Tom. Neighbors wife was hoping for healing. Didn,t happen, Tom blessed hi with strength to endure. He may have if he wanted to chose death. But survived and helps Hs girls basketball team. ESPN did a show on him.

    Lady in testimony meeting today was at TF temple dedication and said he talked to some kid coming out of elevator that ended talked too. Ann still took him on rides and to visits he could no longer remember. And took him how to watch reruns of the Lawrence Welk show he saw for the first time. Would when home watch tv and read letters to family. Normal Dad.

  16. #76

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    I just noticed 4 FB friends sharing a change.org petition to persuade the NYT to rewrite Monson's obituary.

  17. #77
    Explosivo Commando's Avatar
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    I saw that, too. Who cares at this point?
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    I saw that, too. Who cares at this point?
    The one thing that church members can take heart in is knowing that Trump will do or say something stupid to knock this Obit from the front page pretty quickly. Many have already forgotten...except the SL Trib commenters...they never forget!
    "They're good. They've always been good" - David Shaw.

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    Even worse than the people who can't let this go are the ones who post the WH's statement of condolences for Monson's passing with a big "THANK YOU PRESIDENT TRUMP". I'm annoyed that the NYT fell into their little narrative about the "fake news."
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

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    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    NYT Obits desk responds:

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/0...mentsContainer

    People need to let it go. This is getting embarrassing.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  21. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    You’re making good points. But perhaps reacting a bit strongly to the reaction. I havent ready the NYT article, tbh. I was only comparing the tweets that were posted earlier in the thread. The NYT has a clear POV. And they could have said more or something else. But as you say it’s not surprising what they did say and in general I have no problem with it. TSM was a good guy who loved people. He knew it. God knew it. And we all know that God knows it
    Can we be clear about something. He loved some people. He probably even loved most people. He did not love LGBTQ people.
    Last edited by MartyFunkhouser; 01-08-2018 at 08:02 PM.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
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    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    Can we be clear about something. He loved some people. He probably even loved most people. He did not love LGBTQ people.
    I'll bet you he did.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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    Huge Member BigPiney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    Can we be clear about something. He loved some people. He probably even loved most people. He did not love LGBTQ people.
    Oh brother.

  24. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    I'll bet you he did.
    I'll take that bet. Prop 8 and the exclusion policy both happened on his watch. These are very far from loving actions.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    I'll take that bet. Prop 8 and the exclusion policy both happened on his watch. These are very far from loving actions.
    Man, you are trying way too hard.


    I’m sure you dint do everything just the way your son wants it done. That’s so unloving of you!
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  26. #86
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    I'll take that bet. Prop 8 and the exclusion policy both happened on his watch. These are very far from loving actions.
    You'd lose. I know you don't like the church's policies related to LGBTQ people, but you've really got to be look at things from more than one perspective. You're tunnel vision on these issues is killing your credibility.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

    "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    I'll take that bet. Prop 8 and the exclusion policy both happened on his watch. These are very far from loving actions.
    What if his underlying reason for all of that is to keep people out of the misogynistic and homophobic religion? Then would it be considered loving actions? Huh? Did you ever think of htat?
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    What if his underlying reason for all of that is to keep people out of the misogynistic and homophobic religion? Then would it be considered loving actions? Huh? Did you ever think of htat?
    Man, you are trying way too hard.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  29. #89
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Man, you are trying way too hard.
    I'm trying too hard to write satire?
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  30. #90
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    I'm trying too hard to write satire?
    Well, probably.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

    "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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