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Thread: Men's Volleyball 2018

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuthole View Post
    Off the block. That's a kill, bro.
    Yeah, off of Skabelund. Falafel going full clown show.
    Last edited by pelagius; 03-19-2018 at 05:51 PM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuthole View Post
    Off the block. That's a kill, bro.
    My eyes are not attuned to VB, but it didn't look off the block to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by pelagius View Post
    Yeah, off of Skabelund. Falafel going full clown show.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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    So BYU wins the conference tourney 3-1 over UCLA and is looking for a bye. Any report on the final match?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    So BYU wins the conference tourney 3-1 over UCLA and is looking for a bye. Any report on the final match?
    It was pretty much a matter of which team got on a roll, since they were pretty evenly matched. UCLA put BYU on their heels in the first set when one guy kept his serve for 7 or 8 consecutive serves and won the set. The other sets were each fairly even until the teams got to about 12 points, then BYU managed to get and keep a lead in each. Passing, or lack thereof, was the key every time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker View Post
    It was pretty much a matter of which team got on a roll, since they were pretty evenly matched. UCLA put BYU on their heels in the first set when one guy kept his serve for 7 or 8 consecutive serves and won the set. The other sets were each fairly even until the teams got to about 12 points, then BYU managed to get and keep a lead in each. Passing, or lack thereof, was the key every time.
    The UCLA website focused on the home court advantage.
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  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker View Post
    It was pretty much a matter of which team got on a roll, since they were pretty evenly matched. UCLA put BYU on their heels in the first set when one guy kept his serve for 7 or 8 consecutive serves and won the set. The other sets were each fairly even until the teams got to about 12 points, then BYU managed to get and keep a lead in each. Passing, or lack thereof, was the key every time.
    Yeah, quality wise they are very similar. This may be equivalent to what you said but my view of it was BYU's serving pressure was just more consistent than UCLA which lead to BYU getting more runs. Both teams have passing weaknesses that the other team took advantage of: OH2 for BYU (Cyrus/Storm combo) and Jake Arnitz for UCLA (the tall OH for UCLA).

    Couple of other things: Hendrickson (BYU libero) had a rough first set, but really settled down in sets 2-4 and played well. Also, BYU adjusted their block after set 1 and it really helped with Gyimah (UCLA MB ... the good one) and Arnitz. I couldn't figure out the adjustment watching in the stands (my angle's not great to catch changes in blocking), but on the broadcast they said Slabe told them to quit worrying about going as high with their hands (surely a response to Gyimah's insane reach) and just penetrate with their hands like normal (standard pike). Looking back that's exactly what it was, and it makse sense that adjustment really bottled up Arnitz more so than Gyimah.
    Last edited by pelagius; 04-22-2018 at 02:55 PM.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    The UCLA website focused on the home court advantage.
    It's not irrelevant. I think you have to favor UCLA when they play in the semi-finals of the ncaa tournament because UCLA is at home.
    Last edited by pelagius; 04-22-2018 at 02:56 PM.

  8. #68

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    Here is the ncaa bracket:


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    Quote Originally Posted by pelagius View Post
    Here is the ncaa bracket:

    SoBYU has to go through UCLA at Pauly Pavilion where they were swept a couple of weeks ago.
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  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    SoBYU has to go through UCLA at Pauly Pavilion where they were swept a couple of weeks ago.
    Yup, and they are gonna whoop em at Pauly pavilion on their way to whooping lbsu in the championship game


  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveCoug View Post
    Yup, and they are gonna whoop em at Pauly pavilion on their way to whooping lbsu in the championship game

    My optimistic estimate of the probability of that: 13% chance
    My pessimistic estimate: 6% chance

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by pelagius View Post
    Here is the ncaa bracket:

    Looking just at their records, it seems like Harvard should be in the first play-in game on the top side of the bracket. What's up with that?
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  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelado View Post
    Looking just at their records, it seems like Harvard should be in the first play-in game on the top side of the bracket. What's up with that?
    Cost considerations. Men's volleyball is not exactly a cash cow. King (Tennessee) is like 350 miles from Columbus. So Ohio St. hosts a play in this year. I don't see it as a big deal; The King v. OSU and Harvard v. UCLA are probably both nice to have just for those teams to keep sharp. I would surprise me if on this Saturday BYU doesn't hold a blue/white scrimmage for the same reason.

    But the more general issue is that technically the volleyball tournament is a 4 team tournament, but they've stretched it to 7 with 3 play in games. Volleyball can only have a 4 team tournament because of the number of teams that play volleyball (43). This structure leads to some weirdness. I think they should just have a 5 team tournament with a play in for the 4/5. Just take the conference champions. BYU had the better regular season than UCLA and beat them in the tournament. Another single elimination reset of that matchup is silly. Same for Long Beach and UCI.


    For a more authoritative source on the play in considerations here is the interview with a committee member today:

    OTB: How much was geography a factor in determining that Ohio State would play host to King in the NCAA Tournament play-in match?

    JO: The committee has latitude with who we select for the at large selections, but opening round match-ups will be determined by geographic proximity.
    http://www.offtheblockblog.com/2018/...at-large-bids/
    Last edited by pelagius; 04-22-2018 at 08:09 PM.

  14. #74

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    VolleyFour matches tonight: Long Beach St v. Ohio State and BYU v. UCLA


  15. #75

    Default Men's Volleyball 2018

    Down 23-22 late in the first set, BYU got a free ball on a return error over the net by UCLA. Instead of passing and setting up a play, the outside hitter went for the kill. But he swung and nearly whiffed. The ball went softly over the net and UCLA ended up winning the point, and ultimately the first set. Huge missed opportunity.
    Last edited by Donuthole; 05-03-2018 at 09:18 PM.
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  16. #76

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    Nice finish to set 2.
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    Good second set.
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    Lousy beginning to the third set.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

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    Third set leveled. Serves for both teams are less than stellar.
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    Boo. Had lots of chances there.
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    What a lousy way to give away the third set. Momentum UCLA's.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

  22. #82

    Default Men's Volleyball 2018

    BYU led 22-19 and somehow blew the set.
    Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

    There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock

  23. #83

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    Of course losing to UCLA was disappointing but I think it was a pretty good season overall. Not sure they overperformed but they certainly didn't underperform. Some thoughts:

    1. I think the biggest difference between this team and the 16 and 17 iterations is the lack of a pin hitter that can terminate well out of system. In 2016, Patch was the best in the college game at this. Sander is an elite pin hitter, but much more limited out of system than Patch and Langlois. Given the Lack of elite talent at setter and libero (and I like both Durkin and Hendrickson ... but Durkin, for example, is not as talented as Micah Ma'a (UCLA's setter)), BYU really needs a guy who can go over the top out of system with effectiveness. Without this kind of pin hitter it puts a lot of pressure to serve really well against teams like UCLA. BYU didn't quite have enough serving pressure last night.

    2. BYU loses both assistants. Who does Olmstead bring in? Does this turnover lead to a drop-off?

    3. BYU is incredibly thin at setter going forward. Only Will Stanley? Does Cyrus Fa'alago get a shot at setter next year (I guess Lincoln is possibility too)? Also, as near as I can tell BYU doesn't have setter recruit coming in for next year.

    4. Can Fernandez develop into an elite opposite? He is an elite server and blocks well. I also think he digs well for an oppo, but he only hit 0.269 for season. Yes, he got a lot of trash sets, but I don't think he got more trash sets than Sander (0.321 hitter). Can he develop into a effective out of system terminator?

    5. BYU has some highly rated pin hitter recruits coming in and some that redshirted this year. Will Storm and Cyrus be the OH next year or will at least one younger guy break through? Maybe Davide Gardini (6-9 OH from Italy ... his Dad is a legendary player) or Miguel Sarabia?
    Last edited by pelagius; 05-04-2018 at 05:42 PM.

  24. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by pelagius View Post
    Of course losing to UCLA was disappointing but I think it was a pretty good season overall. Not sure they overperformed but they certainly didn't underperform. Some thoughts:

    1. I think the biggest difference between this team and the 16 and 17 iterations is the lack of a pin hitter that can terminate well out of system. In 2016, Patch was the best in the college game at this. Sander is an elite pin hitter, but much more limited out of system than Patch and Langlois. Given the Lack of elite talent at setter and libero (and I like both Durkin and Hendrickson ... but Durkin, for example, is not as talented as Micah Ma'a (UCLA's setter)), BYU really needs a guy who can go over the top out of system with effectiveness. Without this kind of pin hitter it puts a lot of pressure to serve really well against teams like UCLA. BYU didn't quite have enough serving pressure last night.

    2. BYU loses both assistants. Who does Olmstead bring in? Does this turnover lead to a drop-off?

    3. BYU is incredibly thin at setter going forward. Only Will Stanley? Does Cyrus Fa'alago get a shot at setter next year (I guess Lincoln is possibility too)? Also, as near as I can tell BYU doesn't have setter recruit coming in for next year.

    4. Can Fernandez develop into an elite opposite? He is an elite server and blocks well. I also think he digs well for an oppo, but he only hit 0.269 for season. Yes, he got a lot of trash sets, but I don't think he got more trash sets than Sander (0.321 hitter). Can he develop into a effective out of system terminator?

    5. BYU has some highly rated pin hitter recruits coming in and some that redshirted this year. Will Storm and Cyrus be the OH next year or will at least one younger guy break through? Maybe Davide Gardini (6-9 OH from Italy ... his Dad is a legendary player) or Miguel Sarabia?
    Who will help up the middle? There were times against UCLA, where the lack of height really hurt BYU?

    What can BYU to improve its service, which really let BYU down in that third set?

    The lack of a setter is disconcerting as well. I continue to hope this next season will see BYU return to glory and the promised land of a natty, but they are falling short.
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  25. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    Who will help up the middle? There were times against UCLA, where the lack of height really hurt BYU?
    I don't think I agree. BYU is very good up the middle, and very tall. UCLA and BYU have basically the same sized middles. Nobody can stop Gyimah as a middle attacker (UCLA's best middle). He touches like 12' 5''. Gyimah is simply going to go over the top against good blockers if UCLA is in system. You have to serve well enough to limit his touches. Gyimah is simply the best offensive middle in college. That doesn't mean BYU's middles aren't very good. They are.

    Miki and Ferrerier are the likely starting middles next season. Both are very good middles. I do think both can improve offensively. Ferrerier needs to imrpove is float too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    What can BYU to improve its service, which really let BYU down in that third set?
    I don't think it's an particular area of concern. BYU is a very good serving team, but serving has a lot of volatility. I would match rather see a BYU lineup that structurally doesn't need to be as good from the service line to be elite. So I think improved passing and out of system terminating are far more important areas of improvement than serving.
    Last edited by pelagius; 05-04-2018 at 06:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pelagius View Post
    I don't think I agree. BYU is very good up the middle, and very tall. UCLA and BYU have basically the same sized middles. Nobody can stop Gyimah as a middle attacker (UCLA's best middle). He touches like 12' 5''. Gyimah is simply going to go over the top against good blockers if UCLA is in system. You have to serve well enough to limit his touches.

    Miki and Ferrerier are the likely starting middles next season. Both are very good middles. I do think both can improve offensively. Ferrerier needs to imrpove is float too.



    I don't think it's an particular area of concern. BYU is a very good serving team, but serving has a lot of volatility. I would match rather see a BYU lineup that structurally doesn't need to be as good from the service line to be elite. So I think improved passing and out of system terminating are far more important areas of improvement than serving.
    Gyimah is awesome and got too many touches.

    And how will BYU improve its passing with its setter limitations. Many of those sets were very mediocre last night.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

  27. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    Gyimah is awesome and got too many touches.

    And how will BYU improve its passing with its setter limitations. Many of those sets were very mediocre last night.
    By passing, I mean the first contact. If BYU improves its passing, then the setter will get the pass in better position and the sets will almost certainly be better. I think BYU will be a better passing team next year. Hendrickson (the libero) is a freshman. He improved a lot during the year. He needs to make an incremental leap next year. I think the upper bound from him is near elite play. OH like Cyrus and Storm need to pass better. Cyrus has good hands. He should pass better than he is I think. I expect he will given he wasn't able to play this year until mid-season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pelagius View Post
    By passing, I mean the first contact. If BYU improves its passing, then the setter will get the pass in better position and the sets will almost certainly be better. I think BYU will be a better passing team next year. Hendrickson (the libero) is a freshman. He improved a lot during the year. He needs to make an incremental leap next year. I think the upper bound from him is near elite play. OH like Cyrus and Storm need to pass better. Cyrus has good hands. He should pass better than he is I think. I expect he will given he wasn't able to play this year until mid-season.
    Thanks for the clarification. Cyrus going down sucked too.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

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  29. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    Thanks for the clarification. Cyrus going down sucked too.
    Let me add, a few more thoughts. This was an elite team. And they developed well over the season; I think this was the Olmstead crew's best coaching job. So I guess I take back what I said earlier. I think they probably overachieved a little (and underachieved a little in 2016). To have a third final four appearance in row after losing Patch and Langlois is pretty great. Patch started for the U.S. in World League last summer, and Langlois was a bench player. I think, in general, people are too quick to criticize serving (knock it off SFH crowd). College men's teams these days all serve really aggressively. UCLA, BYU, and Ohio State all have a mind boggling number of errors over the course of a season. These coaches have all come to the same conclusion: that even though serving creates lots of errors, your opponents side-out rate will on average be lower with aggressive serving than not. They may be wrong about the optimality of this approach, but I think there is a reason why basically all the best teams have super-aggressive serving philosophies.

    Here is where I think the team was a little disappointing. Structurally this should have a been a better passing team. Your three main passers are the Libero and your two OHs in men's volleyball (this isn't true for women's volleyball because of the more permissive subbing rules). If you go with athletic and smaller OHs, they need be relatively good passers. This was a smallish OH lineup for BYU: Sander at 6' 4" and Fa'alago at 6' 4'' or Sander 6' 4" and Storm at 6' 1". And all three are quite athletic. Teams structured this way need to be good passing teams, because they are going to be relatively disadvantage in other dimensions (for example, typically they aren't going to be great out of system terminators). A team structured this way has to be better at passing than a team that has a 6' 10" Jake Langlois as an OH. I don't think the passing dimension of the team quite got to the level it needed to. I'm not suggesting the team didn't work hard enough or the players aren't talented enough or the coaching is not good enough. It's a crazy competitive environment for the top 10 or so teams in men's volleyball. Sometimes, thinks don't quite gel in time. Also even if this dimension came together perfectly, BYU may have still lost last night. If BYU had this dimension reach its maximum potential, maybe BYU odds would have been 65/35 instead 50/50 to beat UCLA last night.
    Last edited by pelagius; 05-05-2018 at 02:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pelagius View Post
    Let me add, a few more thoughts. This was an elite team. And they developed well over the season; I think this was the Olmstead crew's best coaching job. So I guess I take back what I said earlier. I think they probably overachieved a little (and underachieved a little in 2016). To have a third final four appearance in row after losing Patch and Langlois is pretty great. Patch started for the U.S. in World League last summer, and Langlois was a bench player. I think, in general, people are too quick to criticize serving (knock it off SFH crowd). College men's teams these days all serve really aggressively. UCLA, BYU, and Ohio State all have a mind boggling number of errors over the course of a season. These coaches have all come to the same conclusion: that even though serving creates lots of errors, your opponents side-out rate will on average be lower with aggressive serving than not. They may be wrong about the optimality of this approach, but I think there is a reason why basically all the best teams have super-aggressive serving philosophies.

    Here is where I think the team was a little disappointing. Structurally this should have a been a better passing team. Your three main passers are the Libero and your two OHs in men's volleyball (this isn't true for women's volleyball because of the more permissive subbing rules). If you go with athletic and smaller OHs, they need be relatively good passers. This was a smallish OH lineup for BYU: Sander at 6' 4" and Fa'alago at 6' 4'' or Sander 6' 4" and Storm at 6' 1". And all three are quite athletic. Teams structured this way need to be good passing teams, because they are going to be relatively disadvantage in other dimensions (for example, typically they aren't going to be great out of system terminators). A team structured this way has to be better at passing than a team that has a 6' 10" Jake Langlois as an OH. I don't think the passing dimension of the team quite got to the level it needed to. I'm not suggesting the team didn't work hard enough or the players aren't talented enough or the coaching is not good enough. It's a crazy competitive environment for the top 10 or so teams in men's volleyball. Sometimes, thinks don't quite gel in time. Also even if this dimension came together perfectly, BYU may have still lost last night. If BYU had this dimension reach its maximum potential, maybe BYU odds would have been 65/35 instead 50/50 to beat UCLA last night.
    Good thoughts. I've seen you use the term "out of system" termination. What exactly does that mean?
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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