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  • #136
    Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    I am not necessarily saying that you are an anti-religious bigot, but there is a damn good chance you are!

    (see how productive this is?)
    Have I asked for rights to be restricted on the basis of religious beliefs? If I said that people that believe in Christ shouldn't be allowed to be married, you might have a case to infer that I hate Christians.

    I'm sorry that I'm willing to at least entertain that someone who wants to deny fundamental rights to homosexuals might dislike them.
    As I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
    --Kendrick Lamar

    Comment

    • #137
      Originally posted by mpfunk View Post
      Have I asked for rights to be restricted on the basis of religious beliefs? If I said that people that believe in Christ shouldn't be allowed to be married, you might have a case to infer that I hate Christians.

      I'm sorry that I'm willing to at least entertain that someone who wants to deny fundamental rights to homosexuals might dislike them.
      No, you automatically assumed that if he doesn’t support gay marriage that he must hate gays. I know you like to make that assumption because it confirms your biases, but you at least ought to consider that that is not always the case.

      Furthermore, this kind of demonization of our ideological opponents is exactly what got our country into the stupid mess (Trump!) in the first place.
      "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
      "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
      "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

      Comment

      • #138
        Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
        No, you automatically assumed that if he doesn’t support gay marriage that he must hate gays. I know you like to make that assumption because it confirms your biases, but you at least ought to consider that that is not always the case.

        Furthermore, this kind of demonization of our ideological opponents is exactly what got our country into the stupid mess (Trump!) in the first place.
        Not everyone who wants to deny fundamental rights to homosexuals hate them. However, it pretty compelling evidence though that a person does hate homosexuals if they want to deny them fundamental rights simply based on sexual orientation. I'm open to seeing other evidence with those people.
        As I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
        --Kendrick Lamar

        Comment

        • #139
          Originally posted by mpfunk View Post
          Not everyone who wants to deny fundamental rights to homosexuals hate them. However, it pretty compelling evidence though that a person does hate homosexuals if they want to deny them fundamental rights simply based on sexual orientation. I'm open to seeing other evidence with those people.
          No you're not. But you're not above pretending that you are.
          Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

          "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

          GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

          Comment

          • #140
            Wait, is having a cake made for your wedding a fundamental right? Id think getting married is a fundamental right, not having a cake made, but what do I know?


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
            "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

            Comment

            • #141
              Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
              It's kind of funny how frequently you mock conversations here. But you keep coming back!
              Go easy on AJ. She just needs some adult conversation after spending all day running errands with the kiddos.


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
              "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

              Comment

              • #142
                Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                Wait, is having a cake made for your wedding a fundamental right? Id think getting married is a fundamental right, not having a cake made, but what do I know?
                Not just a cake (he was willing to sell them a premade wedding cake off-the-shelf) but a custom-made cake.
                "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                Comment

                • #143
                  Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                  Wait, is having a cake made for your wedding a fundamental right? Id think getting married is a fundamental right, not having a cake made, but what do I know?


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                  fundamental right isn't exactly the right term here
                  Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

                  "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

                  GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                  Comment

                  • #144
                    Originally posted by mpfunk View Post
                    No. It is not a protected class and shouldn't be a protected class. You aren't born a racist piece of shit that is definitely a decision.
                    So do you advocate protecting only those persons who are genetically determined to act or believe or experience urges in a certain way? Are you excluding protection from persons who just like gay sex but are otherwise straight? What about a cultivated fetish?
                    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

                    Comment

                    • #145
                      Originally posted by falafel View Post
                      fundamental right isn't exactly the right term here
                      Okay, I was confused. Funk used "fundamental right" at least twice in this conversation.
                      "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

                      Comment

                      • #146
                        Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                        Okay, I was confused. Funk used "fundamental right" at least twice in this conversation.
                        Don't worry, funk isn't making legal arguments. That way, he can use terms anyway he wants.
                        Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

                        "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

                        GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                        Comment

                        • #147
                          Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                          Wait, is having a cake made for your wedding a fundamental right? Id think getting married is a fundamental right, not having a cake made, but what do I know?


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                          Having a cake baked for you isn't about a fundamental right. The fundamental right thing came up in the context of discussing whether or not the baker actually hates homosexuals. I indicated that his advocacy/desire to deny the fundamental right to marry to homosexuals is compelling evidence that he hates homosexuals.

                          Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                          Not just a cake (he was willing to sell them a premade wedding cake off-the-shelf) but a custom-made cake.
                          He gets no points for this act. He is required under federal law to sell them.

                          Originally posted by creekster View Post
                          So do you advocate protecting only those persons who are genetically determined to act or believe or experience urges in a certain way? Are you excluding protection from persons who just like gay sex but are otherwise straight? What about a cultivated fetish?
                          People who "like gay sex but are otherwise straight" are not straight, they are bisexual. Yes, I think bisexuals should be a protected class. A cultivated fetish is not comparable to someone being LGBTQ. As for protected classes, I think when we are talking sexual orientation, I think the protections are based on a genetic predisposition.
                          As I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
                          --Kendrick Lamar

                          Comment

                          • #148
                            Truck drivers discriminating against Funk and his friends by not delivering their sacrament...

                            Jury Awards $240,000 to Muslim Truck Drivers In EEOC Religious Discrimination Suit

                            A federal jury in Peoria, Ill., has awarded $240,000 to two Somalian-American Muslims who were fired from their jobs as truck drivers at Star Transport, an over-the-road trucking company, when they refused to transport alcohol because it violated their religious beliefs, according to the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC), which brought the case. The trial started on Oct. 19, and the jury returned its verdict the next day after 45 minutes of deliberation.


                            Judge James E. Shadid, the chief judge of the U.S. District Court for the Central District of Illinois, found in favor of EEOC after Star Transport admitted liability in March 2015. The resulting trial was to determine compensatory and punitive damages and back pay. The jury awarded Mahad Abass Mohamed and Abdkiarim Hassan Bulshale $20,000 each in compensatory damages and $100,000 each in punitive damages. Judge Shadid awarded each approximately $1,500 in back pay.
                            [...]
                            Smason stated, "We are pleased that the jury recognized that these - and all - employees are entitled to observe and practice their faith, no matter what that might be."


                            Bulshale commented, "This case makes me proud to be American."
                            https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/r.../10-22-15b.cfm

                            I guess this trucking company learned a valuable lesson... Don't hire mormons, muslims, etc. to drive your beer trucks.
                            "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                            "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                            "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                            GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                            Comment

                            • #149
                              Originally posted by Uncle Ted View Post
                              Truck drivers discriminating against Funk and his friends by not delivering their sacrament...


                              https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/r.../10-22-15b.cfm

                              I guess this trucking company learned a valuable lesson... Don't hire mormons, muslims, etc. to drive your beer trucks.
                              I don't necessarily have a problem with this result. It makes sense for an employer to make a reasonable accommodation for a religious belief prohibiting the consumption of alcohol. I can see how this is a case of religious discrimination.

                              However, I still see no religious discrimination in requiring a person applying for a business license being required to engage in business in a non-discriminatory manner towards protected classes. Based on the historical oppression and continuing oppression of LGBTQ, it makes sense to have them be a protected class. I don't think a business owner should be allowed to hide behind his or her religion to justify discriminating in business practices.
                              As I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
                              --Kendrick Lamar

                              Comment

                              • #150
                                Originally posted by mpfunk View Post
                                I don't necessarily have a problem with this result. It makes sense for an employer to make a reasonable accommodation for a religious belief prohibiting the consumption of alcohol. I can see how this is a case of religious discrimination.
                                Is not hiring muslims. mormons, etc. truck drivers in the first place considered a "reasonable accommodation"? It seems like the simplest thing to do for a delivery service to do.

                                Originally posted by mpfunk View Post
                                However, I still see no religious discrimination in requiring a person applying for a business license being required to engage in business in a non-discriminatory manner towards protected classes. Based on the historical oppression and continuing oppression of LGBTQ, it makes sense to have them be a protected class. I don't think a business owner should be allowed to hide behind his or her religion to justify discriminating in business practices.
                                What if it a muslim owned trucking company and they refuse to deliver beer to a gay night club? Are they doing it because they have religious problems with alcohol or gays? Maybe they delivered beer to some other night clubs but didn't have any idea what they were hauling (the stuff is all in boxes).

                                And this "protected class" thing... Are you saying that you and beer/sacrament drinking religous buddies have no class? Just wondering.
                                "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                                "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                                "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                                GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                                Comment

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