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Thread: Why cut taxes?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockett View Post
    What do you call it when Bernie Sanders or another politician promise free health care, free college, free child care? Is that not vote buying? Is it really hyperbole to call it that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    And Trump wants to keep out muslims and build a wall. So is it real hyperbole to claim that republicans hate minorities? Is that not vote buying?

    We can do this all day.

    When are you dummies going to figure out both parties are just full of sh*t and just embrace the libertarian party?

    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    A belated thanks to cowboy and others for some interesting thoughts. I especially like the changes to Social Security (pushing out the retirement age and lifting the cap). I’d also keep in place the relatively high tax rates for income above $1 Million. I’d kill the “carried interest” feature once and for all, and I’d put a temporary (six months?) tax of only 15% (maybe more, but below 20) on offshore funds being brought back into the U.S. I’d lower the corporate tax rate as well, but with an understanding that if these changes resulted in rising deficits, the higher rates are coming back.
    Republicans are caving to PAC's demands... Well, almost.

    House GOP tax plan will keep top 39.6% tax rate for rich, delay estate tax repeal for 2-3 years

    The much-anticipated House GOP tax plan will keep the current top tax rate of 39.6% for the most affluent Americans but will make that bracket apply only to "substantially" higher incomes than the current $470,700 for couples, House Speaker Paul D. Ryan told a group of conservative interest groups Tuesday.


    The plan will also delay any repeal of the estate tax for two to three years, the speaker told the group, according to participants in the private meeting.


    Ryan said he wanted the House bill to immediately cut the corporate tax rate to 20% from the current 35%, but he acknowledged that the final version may be different. "I can't speak to what the Senate's going to do," he told the group.
    [...]
    http://www.latimes.com/politics/wash...htmlstory.html
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
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    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
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  3. #63
    Semper infra dignitatem PaloAltoCougar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    When are you dummies going to figure out both parties are just full of sh*t and just embrace the libertarian party?

    ...
    So sell me... Where will the significant spending cuts be made?

  4. #64
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    When are you dummies going to figure out both parties are just full of sh*t and just embrace the libertarian party?
    See my sig line below.

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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    So sell me... Where will the significant spending cuts be made?
    A Plan to Cut Federal Government Spending

    https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.o.../9/hb111-4.pdf
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    See my sig line below.

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    "Socialism is not bad IMHO" - byu71
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    See my sig line below.

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    Come on now, Libertarians are serious people with serious ideas. Here is such person during the Libertarian convention.

    https://youtu.be/Bl3ylFtOius?t=1m35s
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    Come on now, Libertarians are serious people with serious ideas. Here is such person during the Libertarian convention.

    https://youtu.be/Bl3ylFtOius?t=1m35s
    I think that guy would even be an improvement over our current president and the democrat's "most qualified candidate ever".
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  9. #69
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    Come on now, Libertarians are serious people with serious ideas. Here is such person during the Libertarian convention.

    https://youtu.be/Bl3ylFtOius?t=1m35s


    Nobody takes libertarians seriously.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
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  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    A belated thanks to cowboy and others for some interesting thoughts. I especially like the changes to Social Security (pushing out the retirement age and lifting the cap). I’d also keep in place the relatively high tax rates for income above $1 Million. I’d kill the “carried interest” feature once and for all, and I’d put a temporary (six months?) tax of only 15% (maybe more, but below 20) on offshore funds being brought back into the U.S. I’d lower the corporate tax rate as well, but with an understanding that if these changes resulted in rising deficits, the higher rates are coming back.
    Three thoughts:

    1) I think the biggest bang for the buck is in capital gains tax cuts, followed closely by repatriation incentives.

    2) I'm okay with higher tax rates for income above $1 million if it's indexed for inflation, and it's a marginal rate that begins at $1 million. Also, I think there should be an income averaging option for people who hit a 1-time high earning year. For example, a farmer who has a company build windmills on his place can either take a 20-year payout or a one-time lump sum. The best thing for the economy is for him to take a lump sum so he will invest in machinery, etc. that will immediately impact GDP and also make his farm more efficient. Income averaging would give him more incentive to make that move, where the current structure provides incentive for him to take the long-term payout.

    3) I understand your intent with the corporate tax cut, but I'm not sure how one could prove the corporate tax rate affected deficits one way or another.

    Other than that, all I have to say is this is an awesome World Series.

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  11. #71
    Soul Plumber wuapinmon's Avatar
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    1)I'd lower corporate tax rate to 28%, or 20% if you have a defined-benefit retirement plan that meets criteria determined down the line (not by politicians)
    2) Raise capital gains exceptions for sale of primary residence to $350,000 per person, $700,000 per couple, once every 3 years.
    3)Eliminate cap on Social Security max annual tax. All earnings will be taxed.
    4) Raise SSI eligibility age to 72 for people born after 1970. 73 born after 1980, 75 born after 1990. 77 after 2000, 79 after 2010. 81 after 2020.
    5) Social Security should require a means test to begin drawing it. If you have assets over a certain amount, you don't need "Social Security Insurance." Just because I've paid into my home, fire, and auto insurance policies my whole life doesn't mean I'm suddenly entitled to checks all the time....Social Security is insurance. The law should be written so that people can't put all their assets in trusts to avoid this rule.
    6) Eliminate the mortgage interest deduction. Only slightly more than half of all Americans own a home and interest rates are at near historic lows. Kill the cow before the rates go back up.
    7) Reauthorize deductions for EnergyStar windows, doors, appliances, insulation, etc on primary residences.
    8) Special 5% deduction in corporate tax rate, beneath the 20% possible one, in any year that a company with over 300 employees keeps a full janitorial staff on the payroll the entire year (no outsourcing allowed) and the executive officers' pay (including options and bonuses--gross compensation) does not exceed the lowest paid employee's annual compensation by more than 35x his/her hourly wage. Also, all employees must enjoy the same health insurance package in order to qualify for this tax rate.
    9) Raise the federal excise tax on gasoline from $18.2 where it's been since 1993 to 32˘, where it should be when adjusted for inflation. A gallon of gas costs double what it did in 1993. The tax should go up, and we could use the tax revenue for infrastructure.
    10) $10 excise tax on the sale of every new smartphone sold in the USA. The money will go directly into Ajit Pai's personal bank account.
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    1)I'd lower corporate tax rate to 28%, or 20% if you have a defined-benefit retirement plan that meets criteria determined down the line (not by politicians)
    Maybe that would incentivize to bring a few billion (of their $250b+) from offshore... If I was apple I would just build data centers and manufacturing plants outside of the states rather than pay the premium that the U.S. wants in taxes to build them here.

    2) Raise capital gains exceptions for sale of primary residence to $350,000 per person, $700,000 per couple, once every 3 years.
    3)Eliminate cap on Social Security max annual tax. All earnings will be taxed.
    4) Raise SSI eligibility age to 72 for people born after 1970. 73 born after 1980, 75 born after 1990. 77 after 2000, 79 after 2010. 81 after 2020.
    Yeah, sounds good to me.

    5) Social Security should require a means test to begin drawing it. If you have assets over a certain amount, you don't need "Social Security Insurance." Just because I've paid into my home, fire, and auto insurance policies my whole life doesn't mean I'm suddenly entitled to checks all the time....Social Security is insurance. The law should be written so that people can't put all their assets in trusts to avoid this rule.
    Wat? Change the rules on Social Security on people. I was promised that money! OK, maybe just change it for folks born after 1970.

    6) Eliminate the mortgage interest deduction. Only slightly more than half of all Americans own a home and interest rates are at near historic lows. Kill the cow before the rates go back up.
    7) Reauthorize deductions for EnergyStar windows, doors, appliances, insulation, etc on primary residences.
    And don't forget credits for solar panels! I still need to get some of those.


    8) Special 5% deduction in corporate tax rate, beneath the 20% possible one, in any year that a company with over 300 employees keeps a full janitorial staff on the payroll the entire year (no outsourcing allowed) and the executive officers' pay (including options and bonuses--gross compensation) does not exceed the lowest paid employee's annual compensation by more than 35x his/her hourly wage. Also, all employees must enjoy the same health insurance package in order to qualify for this tax rate.
    9) Raise the federal excise tax on gasoline from $18.2 where it's been since 1993 to 32˘, where it should be when adjusted for inflation. A gallon of gas costs double what it did in 1993. The tax should go up, and we could use the tax revenue for infrastructure.
    10) $10 excise tax on the sale of every new smartphone sold in the USA. The money will go directly into Ajit Pai's personal bank account.
    WTF! Maybe apple will start taking Bitcoin.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  13. #73
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    1)I'd lower corporate tax rate to 28%, or 20% if you have a defined-benefit retirement plan that meets criteria determined down the line (not by politicians)
    2) Raise capital gains exceptions for sale of primary residence to $350,000 per person, $700,000 per couple, once every 3 years.
    3)Eliminate cap on Social Security max annual tax. All earnings will be taxed.
    4) Raise SSI eligibility age to 72 for people born after 1970. 73 born after 1980, 75 born after 1990. 77 after 2000, 79 after 2010. 81 after 2020.
    5) Social Security should require a means test to begin drawing it. If you have assets over a certain amount, you don't need "Social Security Insurance." Just because I've paid into my home, fire, and auto insurance policies my whole life doesn't mean I'm suddenly entitled to checks all the time....Social Security is insurance. The law should be written so that people can't put all their assets in trusts to avoid this rule.
    6) Eliminate the mortgage interest deduction. Only slightly more than half of all Americans own a home and interest rates are at near historic lows. Kill the cow before the rates go back up.
    7) Reauthorize deductions for EnergyStar windows, doors, appliances, insulation, etc on primary residences.
    8) Special 5% deduction in corporate tax rate, beneath the 20% possible one, in any year that a company with over 300 employees keeps a full janitorial staff on the payroll the entire year (no outsourcing allowed) and the executive officers' pay (including options and bonuses--gross compensation) does not exceed the lowest paid employee's annual compensation by more than 35x his/her hourly wage. Also, all employees must enjoy the same health insurance package in order to qualify for this tax rate.
    9) Raise the federal excise tax on gasoline from $18.2 where it's been since 1993 to 32˘, where it should be when adjusted for inflation. A gallon of gas costs double what it did in 1993. The tax should go up, and we could use the tax revenue for infrastructure.
    10) $10 excise tax on the sale of every new smartphone sold in the USA. The money will go directly into Ajit Pai's personal bank account.
    I am in favor of some types of SSI means test as a pragmatic necessity but it grates on me to some extent as it encourages irresponsibility wrt to saving and planning for one's future, IMO. You call it insurance, I call it a tax designed to redistribute wealth especially if you uncap its assessment levels. But nobody is likely to want me to cry on their shoulder about it.

    Really like #10 if it went to funding the only socialistic fund that I like - Federal Universal Service Fund!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    I am in favor of some types of SSI means test as a pragmatic necessity but it grates on me to some extent as it encourages irresponsibility wrt to saving and planning for one's future, IMO. You call it insurance, I call it a tax designed to redistribute wealth especially if you uncap its assessment levels. But nobody is likely to want me to cry on their shoulder about it.

    Really like #10 if it went to funding the only socialistic fund that I like - Federal Universal Service Fund!
    This would be a betrayal of the purpose of the fund when established. You are obligated to pay on the fund, and were promised it would be there when you retire, but then you argue because you are successful despite paying into the fund for a lifetime that you are no longer entitled to receive anything?

    I don't believe that is fair or politically viable.

    Also lifting the tax cap is counter-intuitive. It is already at $127,000. Imagine that you have a means test where people who pay unlimited into the system have a promise they can never receive anything from it? Doesn't that strike resident socialists or redistributionists as somewhat unfair?
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  15. #75
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    Wuap, social security is not casualty insurance. It is more like an annuity.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  16. #76
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    This would be a betrayal of the purpose of the fund when established. You are obligated to pay on the fund, and were promised it would be there when you retire, but then you argue because you are successful despite paying into the fund for a lifetime that you are no longer entitled to receive anything?

    I don't believe that is fair or politically viable.

    Also lifting the tax cap is counter-intuitive. It is already at $127,000. Imagine that you have a means test where people who pay unlimited into the system have a promise they can never receive anything from it? Doesn't that strike resident socialists or redistributionists as somewhat unfair?
    I understand and agree, but nobody wants you to cry on their shoulder either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    I understand and agree, but nobody wants you to cry on their shoulder either.
    Of course not, but it was advertised as an annuity. You don't lose an annuity simply because you have other assets.
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  18. #78
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    Of course not, but it was advertised as an annuity. You don't lose an annuity simply because you have other assets.
    You "shouldn't" lose an annuity because you were responsible and successful. But you will because we are irresponsible and democratic enough that irresponsibility is not frowned upon. After all it was all that good marketing that addicted the middle class to the consumer culture that financed your wealth in the first place. They are the victim and you have the gall to complain about it!
    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
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    I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
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  19. #79
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    1)I'd lower corporate tax rate to 28%, or 20% if you have a defined-benefit retirement plan that meets criteria determined down the line (not by politicians)
    Agreed on the first part. Our corporate rate needs to be more in line with international norms to stop companies like Apple from moving everything out of country. I think here is a case where we could genuinely come out ahead by a reduction. But I could be wrong. Not every company has the size and ability to evade taxes my moving stuff offshore like Apple.

    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    2) Raise capital gains exceptions for sale of primary residence to $350,000 per person, $700,000 per couple, once every 3 years.
    Disagree. Capital gains tax is reasonable where it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    4) Raise SSI eligibility age to 72 for people born after 1970. 73 born after 1980, 75 born after 1990. 77 after 2000, 79 after 2010. 81 after 2020.
    I love the idea of sticking it to millennials, but 81? Come on.

    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    3)Eliminate cap on Social Security max annual tax. All earnings will be taxed.
    5) Social Security should require a means test to begin drawing it. If you have assets over a certain amount, you don't need "Social Security Insurance." Just because I've paid into my home, fire, and auto insurance policies my whole life doesn't mean I'm suddenly entitled to checks all the time....Social Security is insurance. The law should be written so that people can't put all their assets in trusts to avoid this rule.
    Could not disagree more here. This would violate the foundational premise of SS. FDR himself vowed that this would never happen. You pay money in, you have a fundamental right to take money out.

    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    6) Eliminate the mortgage interest deduction. Only slightly more than half of all Americans own a home and interest rates are at near historic lows. Kill the cow before the rates go back up.
    Agreed. I am sick of paying for those stupid McMansions.

    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    7) Reauthorize deductions for EnergyStar windows, doors, appliances, insulation, etc on primary residences.
    Why can't things like this stand on their own? If they aren't cost effective, why subsidize it?

    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    8) Special 5% deduction in corporate tax rate, beneath the 20% possible one, in any year that a company with over 300 employees keeps a full janitorial staff on the payroll the entire year (no outsourcing allowed) and the executive officers' pay (including options and bonuses--gross compensation) does not exceed the lowest paid employee's annual compensation by more than 35x his/her hourly wage. Also, all employees must enjoy the same health insurance package in order to qualify for this tax rate.
    I am going to assume you are trolling with this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    9) Raise the federal excise tax on gasoline from $18.2 where it's been since 1993 to 32˘, where it should be when adjusted for inflation. A gallon of gas costs double what it did in 1993. The tax should go up, and we could use the tax revenue for infrastructure.
    Agreed.
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    I find it funny that none of the talk about taxes is ever that we should ensure the government is using the money with some level of responsibility. I work very closely with a government agency and the idea of saving money or not spending every penny designated to them is worse than rape. If they get $10,000 for a project, they are going to spend $11,000 minimum every single time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    I am going to assume you are trolling with this one.
    Since any company with 300 plus employees for sure has some making minimum wage, the CEO would cap out at $527,800. That would keep a good young executive around until he had one good offer. It would be like the business version of being a Sun Belt football team, as soon as your CEO/Coach had one good year they would leave for somewhere that offered more money and opportunities.

    I also don't understand what having an in house janitorial staff matters. If the company is hiring someone else to do janitorial, aren't they supporting jobs either way?
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  22. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    Also lifting the tax cap is counter-intuitive. It is already at $127,000. Imagine that you have a means test where people who pay unlimited into the system have a promise they can never receive anything from it? Doesn't that strike resident socialists or redistributionists as somewhat unfair?
    This is why I oppose means testing for SS. If we raise the eligibility age and the tax cap, SS should survive without means testing. Most importantly is the incentives that the policy creates. I believe legislators' biggest shortfall is in considering and managing incentives. Without doing so, legislation ends up creating counterproductive, unintended consequences. Obviously, taxes need to raise revenue, but in reaching that goal, fairness and incentives cannot be ignored without doing more harm than good.

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  23. #83

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    So, thoughts on getting rid of student loan interest and medical expense deductions?

    Personal exemptions are now gone.

    I am fine with the business side of it, not pretending I understand it all but whatever.

  24. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus View Post
    So, thoughts on getting rid of student loan interest and medical expense deductions?

    Personal exemptions are now gone.

    I am fine with the business side of it, not pretending I understand it all but whatever.
    caps/floors make them not worth a lot anyway
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  25. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    caps/floors make them not worth a lot anyway
    Right. For medical it had to basically be a catastrophically high level to allow someone to use the deduction. Student loan interest I thought did apply to most people in that situation.

  26. #86
    Senior Member Crockett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    I am in favor of some types of SSI means test as a pragmatic necessity but it grates on me to some extent as it encourages irresponsibility wrt to saving and planning for one's future, IMO. You call it insurance, I call it a tax designed to redistribute wealth especially if you uncap its assessment levels. But nobody is likely to want me to cry on their shoulder about it.

    Really like #10 if it went to funding the only socialistic fund that I like - Federal Universal Service Fund!
    Lucky you! Looks like the hyperbole police let that one go.

  27. #87
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockett View Post
    Lucky you! Looks like the hyperbole police let that one go.
    I have lost hope for goatnapper.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
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  28. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockett View Post
    Lucky you! Looks like the hyperbole police let that one go.
    aren't all tax law changes basically an attempt to distribute the wealth a different way?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    aren't all tax law changes basically an attempt to distribute the wealth a different way?
    For the sole purpose of buying votes!
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  30. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    aren't all tax law changes basically an attempt to distribute the wealth a different way?
    Sure, the current tax code with its incredible complexity and all sorts of credits, deductions, rules, etc. pretty much behaves that way. A very simple flat tax would not. Also, I don't consider tax changes that reduce what is taken from you as redistribution.

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