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"There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
"It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
"Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster
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Originally posted by Crockett View PostWhy the condescending attitude?
You appear to prefer a robust social welfare state. I prefer one that is more limited and stays within its means. I'm concerned about where we are at and the direction we are headed. Current, discretionary spending including defense spending total roughly 1/3 of our annual federal expenditures. The rest is entitlement spending. We keep kicking the can down the road, but something that can't last won't. We are heading for a grave financial crisis, sooner or later. When I add up my federal, state, and property taxes, it's more than a third of my income. I think that's too much. Excuse moi if I voice my concerns in this forum.
But your earlier post I quoted was uber-partisan hyperbole. It is the equivalent of stating that all republicans hate minorities and poor people."There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
"It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
"Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster
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Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View PostMakes perfect sense.
"Hey, let's try to suck as a rock band so that we aren't so rich and famous."
Most Rush fans I know are total nerds.Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
-General George S. Patton
I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
-DOCTOR Wuap
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Originally posted by Crockett View PostWhy the condescending attitude?
You appear to prefer a robust social welfare state. I prefer one that is more limited and stays within its means. I'm concerned about where we are at and the direction we are headed. Current, discretionary spending including defense spending total roughly 1/3 of our annual federal expenditures. The rest is entitlement spending. We keep kicking the can down the road, but something that can't last won't. We are heading for a grave financial crisis, sooner or later. When I add up my federal, state, and property taxes, it's more than a third of my income. I think that's too much. Excuse moi if I voice my concerns in this forum."If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
"I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
"Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!
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Originally posted by happyone View Postgood stuff cowboy, about the only differences I have is with capital gains and SS taxes. Philosophically I would treat all income as income. Make the decision to sell an asset an economic rather than a tax reasons. Also I would completely remove the cap on SS taxes.
From the perspective of fairness, capital gains represent returns over a number of years, and it doesn't seem fair to lump them all together and tax them at once if it will be taxed at the highest personal rate. This is equivalent to taxing the entire appreciation of your retirement portfolio at once. Unlike retirement portfolio's, capital investments like real estate can't all be liquidated gradually. This is why capital gains are taxed at a different rate.
Regarding Social Security, it's all just math. At a 3% return and retirement at age 70 with a 20-year payout, a person needs to invest just over 9% of their income for 45 years (age 25 to 70) to receive a benefit equal to 40% of their working income. Currently, the benefit is capped at around $2,700, equivalent to 40% of an $84k salary, so it seems reasonable to cut the withholding in half at some point beyond that. Some withholding needs to be taken out at upper levels to make up for the disproportionate share of workers to retirees at present.
This is all just opinion on my part. I've certainly put a lot of thought into it over the years, but I'm by no means an expert. I'd be interested to read Pelagius' take on things.sigpic
"Outlined against a blue, gray
October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
Grantland Rice, 1924
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Originally posted by cowboy View PostI understand your opinion on capital gains, and I think a lot of people agree. The primary reason for my position is that Cap X funds are usually reinvested, and taxing them at a low rate decreases the transaction cost of moving investment capital from one investment to another. Lower barriers for people to transferring capital to more productive investments increases the productivity of the economy's aggregate capital investment, and thereby grows the economy faster through more flexible and efficient capital allocation.
From the perspective of fairness, capital gains represent returns over a number of years, and it doesn't seem fair to lump them all together and tax them at once if it will be taxed at the highest personal rate. This is equivalent to taxing the entire appreciation of your retirement portfolio at once. Unlike retirement portfolio's, capital investments like real estate can't all be liquidated gradually. This is why capital gains are taxed at a different rate.
Regarding Social Security, it's all just math. At a 3% return and retirement at age 70 with a 20-year payout, a person needs to invest just over 9% of their income for 45 years (age 25 to 70) to receive a benefit equal to 40% of their working income. Currently, the benefit is capped at around $2,700, equivalent to 40% of an $84k salary, so it seems reasonable to cut the withholding in half at some point beyond that. Some withholding needs to be taken out at upper levels to make up for the disproportionate share of workers to retirees at present.
This is all just opinion on my part. I've certainly put a lot of thought into it over the years, but I'm by no means an expert. I'd be interested to read Pelagius' take on things."There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
"It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
"Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster
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Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View PostYeah, please let's not change capital gains to regular income. That would be awful.Last edited by BlueK; 10-31-2017, 01:33 PM.
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Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View PostYeah, please let's not change capital gains to regular income. That would be awful.
Originally posted by BlueK View PostThis thing is supposed to be revealed tomorrow. I'll laugh it's a tax cut for the super wealthy paid for by tax raises on the middle class.
Again, I feel strongly that the secret to increased revenue and debt repayment is economic growth. I'm actually a proponent of a graduated tax because it makes it easier for people to become wealthy and achieve the American dream. I am not, however, in favor of soaking the rich at extraordinary high levels 'because they can afford it'. Sure, they may be able to afford it, but the money they save in taxes is not going to leave the economy. It will be spent, and I believe they will do more for the economy by spending it themselves than giving it to the government to spend for them.
Oh, and one more thing. We should restructure the repatriation tax to give a temporary holiday to all repatriated earnings, and then tax the rest as capital gains, with an exemption similar to the 1099 for repatriated funds that are invested in long-term assets.sigpic
"Outlined against a blue, gray
October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
Grantland Rice, 1924
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Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View PostYeah, please let's not change capital gains to regular income. That would be awful.
"If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
"I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
"Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!
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Originally posted by Pelado View PostPandering to your donors?
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
I guess the real question is how big of a percentage of American households shoulnd't be required to pay FIT?"Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf
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Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View PostI don't prefer a welfare state. I am fiscally conservative. I consider myself an independent, but I vote republican more than democrat.
But your earlier post I quoted was uber-partisan hyperbole. It is the equivalent of stating that all republicans hate minorities and poor people.
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Originally posted by Crockett View PostWhat do you call it when Bernie Sanders or another politician promise free health care, free college, free child care? Is that not vote buying? Is it really hyperbole to call it that?
We can do this all day."There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
"It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
"Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster
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A belated thanks to cowboy and others for some interesting thoughts. I especially like the changes to Social Security (pushing out the retirement age and lifting the cap). I’d also keep in place the relatively high tax rates for income above $1 Million. I’d kill the “carried interest” feature once and for all, and I’d put a temporary (six months?) tax of only 15% (maybe more, but below 20) on offshore funds being brought back into the U.S. I’d lower the corporate tax rate as well, but with an understanding that if these changes resulted in rising deficits, the higher rates are coming back.
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