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Thread: Why cut taxes?

  1. #481
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Yeah we did, man. Ask Walter... He will tell you and show you the pictures.
    Brown children don't count. So you can keep cheerleading for the bombings to continue frank.

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  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    The growth will cover part, but not all of the tax cuts. Duh.

    Unless we do something to cut spending, all this means is even more deficit spending.
    Cutting spending is pretty easy, JL... We can stop listening to NYT, Guardian, CNN, Fox, MSNBC, and the other so called news about how terrorists are our worst nightmare and stop fighting these stoopid wars:



    If anything, we should be fighting the war on heart disease and cancer.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
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  3. #483

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Cutting spending is pretty easy, JL... We can stop listening to NYT, Guardian, CNN, Fox, MSNBC, and the other so called news about how terrorists are our worst nightmare and stop fighting these stoopid wars:



    If anything, we should be fighting the war on heart disease and cancer.
    How can we do that the Libertarian way? Letting people rot so they get weeded out of the genepool?
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    How can we do that the Libertarian way? Letting people rot so they get weeded out of the genepool?
    By not spending on the money we now spend on defense spending there would be lots of folks that would have extra money would most likely donate to the American Heart Association and the American Cancer Society... Heck, Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos could give them enough just between the two of them.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  5. #485
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Cutting spending is pretty easy, JL... We can stop listening to NYT, Guardian, CNN, Fox, MSNBC, and the other so called news about how terrorists are our worst nightmare and stop fighting these stoopid wars:

    If anything, we should be fighting the war on heart disease and cancer.
    Seems to be really hard for our politicians.
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  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Seems to be really hard for our politicians GOP'ers and Dims.
    FIFY.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  7. #487
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Cutting spending is pretty easy, JL... We can stop listening to NYT, Guardian, CNN, Fox, MSNBC, and the other so called news about how terrorists are our worst nightmare and stop fighting these stoopid wars:



    If anything, we should be fighting the war on heart disease and cancer.
    That's a fascinating graphic, but shouldn't we be focused on premature death? Everybody is going to die from something, and if you live long enough you are going to get some sort of cancer or heart disease, I would guess.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  8. #488

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    FIFY.
    We don’t have any elected Libertardian politicians, so no worries about them being confused with the two parties.
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    We don’t have any elected Libertardian politicians, so no worries about them being confused with the two parties.
    #FakeNews Sorry Frank... Nationwide, there are 164 Libertarians holding elected offices.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  10. #490

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    #FakeNews Sorry Frank... Nationwide, there are 164 Libertarians holding elected offices.
    yes, how could one forget the great debates in the run up to the kohls fire district board
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  11. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    That's a fascinating graphic, but shouldn't we be focused on premature death? Everybody is going to die from something, and if you live long enough you are going to get some sort of cancer or heart disease, I would guess.
    What? No one dies prematurely from heart disease or cancer?
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  12. #492
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    What? No one dies prematurely from heart disease or cancer?
    Not very many death certificates list the cause of death as "very old." They blame it on heart failure, which is chalked up to heart disease, or some sort of cancer, which might not be worth fighting anymore. My grandmother died at 101. She had survived cancer once but had a second type diagnosed when she was 99. WHen she died 2.5 years later, it might have been from the untreated cancer, or she might have just stopped living. I think the death certif refernced heart issues, but I am not sure. At her age, it was time and no one felt like it was a great tragedy to go, even if cancer or heart disease caused it.

    SO, sure, lots of people die prematurely, but do they back the non-premature deaths out of the stats we talk about?
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  13. #493
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    #FakeNews Sorry Frank... Nationwide, there are 164 Libertarians holding elected offices.
    Texas has two and Utah has one.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    Not very many death certificates list the cause of death as "very old." They blame it on heart failure, which is chalked up to heart disease, or some sort of cancer, which might not be worth fighting anymore. My grandmother died at 101. She had survived cancer once but had a second type diagnosed when she was 99. WHen she died 2.5 years later, it might have been from the untreated cancer, or she might have just stopped living. I think the death certif refernced heart issues, but I am not sure. At her age, it was time and no one felt like it was a great tragedy to go, even if cancer or heart disease caused it.

    SO, sure, lots of people die prematurely, but do they back the non-premature deaths out of the stats we talk about?
    OK, so I am right about my assertion that Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos could fully fund all the research that the American Heart Association and the American Cancer Society need.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  15. #495

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    #FakeNews Sorry Frank... Nationwide, there are 164 Libertarians holding elected offices.
    I should have said national office. Not HOA or PTA president.
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  16. #496

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    The growth will cover part, but not all of the tax cuts. Duh.

    Unless we do something to cut spending, all this means is even more deficit spending.
    Unfortunately, the only cuts that will make a significant difference are to the four sacred cows: Military, Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. Everything else is pretty much a rounding error.

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  17. #497
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy View Post
    Unfortunately, the only cuts that will make a significant difference are to the four sacred cows: Military, Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. Everything else is pretty much a rounding error.
    Yep. All the geriatrics in this board would freak out if we cut their “retirement benefits” and the conservatives will freak out if military spending is cut and all the liberals will freak out of Medicaid is touched. We are screwed but at least I’ll be dead and gone by the time it all hits the fan.
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  18. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy View Post
    Unfortunately, the only cuts that will make a significant difference are to the four sacred cows: Military, Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. Everything else is pretty much a rounding error.
    It also depends upon defining the role of government. In order to get a consensus on one, you need horse-trading on one of the others.
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  19. #499

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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    I should have said national office. Not HOA or PTA president.
    Go ahead and hitch your wagon to that dysfunctional group if you like--something to be proud of, no doubt. Flushing the toilet and giving Libertarians a chance to run things doesn't sound so bad.

  20. #500

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo Diddley View Post
    Go ahead and hitch your wagon to that dysfunctional group if you like--something to be proud of, no doubt. Flushing the toilet and giving Libertarians a chance to run things doesn't sound so bad.
    Actually it does. The Libertarian Party was built to chase windmills and push the GOP to the right on certain issues. Functionally governoring is not in their DNA. Why not give the Greens a chance? Because they are also crazy and ridiculous.
    Last edited by frank ryan; Yesterday at 06:34 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    Actually it does. The Libertarian Party was built to chase windmills and push the GOP to the right on certain issues. Functionally governoring is not in their DNA. Why not give the Greens a chance? Because they are also crazy and ridiculous.
    I'm not certain there is a functional theory of American government. Any philosophy that is "anti" a component of society and government will necessarily have blinders.

    Libertarianism shows us the benefits of personal liberties in the face of government power. This is a useful perspective, to respect the power of the collective over the rights of the individual.

    Statism is a belief that the collective is powerful and will usually seek to benefit the collective good. The problem with this approach is it ignores and/or stifles innovation and promotes egalitarianism and mediocrity for large swaths of the population. It also stagnates income and socio-economic mobility.

    Conservatism in the classic sense is to rail against government, to rely upon large business concerns and to empower religious entities. This philosophy stagnates change and prevents improvement, unless it is forced to, i.e., civil rights.

    Anarchy is not a governing philosophy but a source of change, just usually not positive change.

    Communism, totalitarianism and monarchies are not useful in the American experiment.

    A philosophy that respects personal liberties, respects traditions and doesn't seek to change tradition just for the sake of change but takes advantage of the market forces while seeking public change or allows societal change to happen while fulfilling its traditional functions is a difficult one to articulate and to facilitate. But that is the philosophy that would do the most good. Who embodies this philosophy now? No politician, no party and no single political philosophy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    Yep. All the geriatrics in this board would freak out if we cut their “retirement benefits” and the conservatives will freak out if military spending is cut and all the liberals will freak out of Medicaid is touched. We are screwed but at least I’ll be dead and gone by the time it all hits the fan.
    Two of those three affect me or will shortly (Military and SS) - Everything needs to be looked at!

    I may be small, but I'm slow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by happyone View Post
    Two of those three affect me or will shortly (Military and SS) - Everything needs to be looked at!
    It's easy to say let's not pay what was promised, even if some reform is warranted. Most people advocating SSA benefits are far away from having received them.

    So, if you work and pay SS taxes for fifty years, you're saying that people should expect to receive nothing so that we can balance the budget? So let's balance the budget by paying no social security, no welfare, abandon the military? Of course that is absurd.

    Think of social security. You work fifty years, supporting the system. Did you know that if you file jointly and your gross plus half of your social security benefits exceed $32000, your social security benefits are taxed. So you are taxed on benefits which you supported by paying taxes. Does that even make sense? And you believe Social Security should be looked at? Perhaps, but if you can't see some relationship to paying into the system and seniors who often rely upon that income to support themselves to some degree, then I'd like you to explain why.
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  24. #504
    Board Bookworm happyone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    It's easy to say let's not pay what was promised, even if some reform is warranted. Most people advocating SSA benefits are far away from having received them.

    So, if you work and pay SS taxes for fifty years, you're saying that people should expect to receive nothing so that we can balance the budget? So let's balance the budget by paying no social security, no welfare, abandon the military? Of course that is absurd.

    Think of social security. You work fifty years, supporting the system. Did you know that if you file jointly and your gross plus half of your social security benefits exceed $32000, your social security benefits are taxed. So you are taxed on benefits which you supported by paying taxes. Does that even make sense? And you believe Social Security should be looked at? Perhaps, but if you can't see some relationship to paying into the system and seniors who often rely upon that income to support themselves to some degree, then I'd like you to explain why.
    Yes I know about the taxing scenerios of SS, I did my In-laws taxes for years - You make several valid points. For a frame of reference, I can start drawing SS next year and I'm employed by the DoD, so I'm extremely interested in this.

    I didn't mean cut SS out completely - that would be totally unfair as well as stupid, a sure way to lose your reelection bid and probably tank the stock market. IF the decision is made to end the current version of SS, there has to be some sort of graduated phase out. It would not be fair to someone in my position or worse currently receiving SS, to tell them - Sorry no SS benefits for you. Maybe do something like they did when the changed the Gov't retirement system form CSRS to FERS. Current employees were allow to stay in CSRS or transfer to the new system and CSRS benefits frozen at what was currently earned. Quite frankly most stayed in the CSRS system.

    We've discussed various ways to "save" SS. Everything from lifting the cap on wages, raising SS tax rates, raising the Retirement age, to cutting benefits and turning into a 401K (or more specifically the Gov't TSP program) or some combination of all them. I don't think it is sustainable in its current form. Cowboy probably has a much better grasp on this than I do and as well as each scenereo's pluses and minuses (It's been 35 yrs since my last Econ class)

    Also, currently I think people expect too much from SS. It was never meant to be a comfortable middle class retirement - it was meant to keep the wolf on the other side of the door.

    As far as military spending goes - If you really want to cut DoD spending, you've got to start cutting missions and that means people. You can't keep sending people into combat zones again and again and again. If you do, you break your military no matter how well equipped.

    One way to know if are about to break your military is to look at reenlistment rates for the 3rd enlistment (mid career NCOs) and the percentage of Majors and senior Captains (0-3) who are getting out. Those guys should have 90%+ retention rate. That retention rate is starting to drop. So there are problems on the horizon.
    Last edited by happyone; Yesterday at 06:37 PM.

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  25. #505

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    Cut military spending growth. We can destroy the world 100 times over. Yes it will hurt sectors of our economy but whatever. We are safe at the current size. No growth necessary. I would prefer a cut in military spending but let’s start with no growth.


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