Originally posted by Jarid in Cedar
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Last edited by Shaka; 11-20-2017, 10:55 AM.
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Originally posted by Shaka View PostI'd take your problems in a heartbeat. It's unfortunate your QB was injured as it cost you continuity."The first thing I learned upon becoming a head coach after fifteen years as an assistant was the enormous difference between making a suggestion and making a decision."
"They talk about the economy this year. Hey, my hairline is in recession, my waistline is in inflation. Altogether, I'm in a depression."
"I like to bike. I could beat Lance Armstrong, only because he couldn't pass me if he was behind me."
-Rick Majerus
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Originally posted by Flystripper View PostBYU football as we knew is dead and gone. Its been this way for a while, but its taken a few years for the disengaged flywheel to stop spinning. At this point we have two choices:
1.) Scrap the program (nobody wants this) or
3.) FCS or
2.) Adjust expectations that are rooted in what we are, and not what we were.
The independence gambit was worth the gamble to position ourselves for Big 5 inclusion and make that transition as easy as possible while getting paid more money. That gamble came up half empty. We got more money but the Big 5 conference opportunity is over. The ESPN money will be significantly reduced next contract and we will be better served being in a conference. We lost the bet. The world has changed. We can wait until the ESPN money dries up, but I would prefer to bite the bullet and get into a conference where we can enjoy some success and rebuild. Playing in the MWC will still allow us to get blown out 1 or 2 times a year to a big time program and we get the opportunity to play conference foes with real rivalries while playing for something.
I know most of you guys don't agree. Denial is one of the 5 stages of grief. Eventually you will come to acceptance.Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
-General George S. Patton
I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
-DOCTOR Wuap
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Originally posted by falafel View PostYou have to take your problems. That's why they are your problems. Run along now."The first thing I learned upon becoming a head coach after fifteen years as an assistant was the enormous difference between making a suggestion and making a decision."
"They talk about the economy this year. Hey, my hairline is in recession, my waistline is in inflation. Altogether, I'm in a depression."
"I like to bike. I could beat Lance Armstrong, only because he couldn't pass me if he was behind me."
-Rick Majerus
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Originally posted by Flystripper View PostBYU football as we knew is dead and gone. Its been this way for a while, but its taken a few years for the disengaged flywheel to stop spinning. At this point we have two choices:
1.) Scrap the program (nobody wants this) or
3.) FCS or
2.) Adjust expectations that are rooted in what we are, and not what we were.
The independence gambit was worth the gamble to position ourselves for Big 5 inclusion and make that transition as easy as possible while getting paid more money. That gamble came up half empty. We got more money but the Big 5 conference opportunity is over. The ESPN money will be significantly reduced next contract and we will be better served being in a conference. We lost the bet. The world has changed. We can wait until the ESPN money dries up, but I would prefer to bite the bullet and get into a conference where we can enjoy some success and rebuild. Playing in the MWC will still allow us to get blown out 1 or 2 times a year to a big time program and we get the opportunity to play conference foes with real rivalries while playing for something.
I know most of you guys don't agree. Denial is one of the 5 stages of grief. Eventually you will come to acceptance.Last edited by Shaka; 11-20-2017, 11:36 AM.
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Originally posted by Flystripper View PostBYU football as we knew is dead and gone. Its been this way for a while, but its taken a few years for the disengaged flywheel to stop spinning. At this point we have two choices:
1.) Scrap the program (nobody wants this) or
3.) FCS or
2.) Adjust expectations that are rooted in what we are, and not what we were.
The independence gambit was worth the gamble to position ourselves for Big 5 inclusion and make that transition as easy as possible while getting paid more money. That gamble came up half empty. We got more money but the Big 5 conference opportunity is over. The ESPN money will be significantly reduced next contract and we will be better served being in a conference. We lost the bet. The world has changed. We can wait until the ESPN money dries up, but I would prefer to bite the bullet and get into a conference where we can enjoy some success and rebuild. Playing in the MWC will still allow us to get blown out 1 or 2 times a year to a big time program and we get the opportunity to play conference foes with real rivalries while playing for something.
I know most of you guys don't agree. Denial is one of the 5 stages of grief. Eventually you will come to acceptance.
- I agree with your choice #3. That means I would've expected us to go 9-4 against this year's schedule, maybe 8-5. We are likely going 3-10. BYU shouldn't go 3-10 ever, regardless of conference affiliation or independence.
- I agree that independence was worth the gamble. It looked pretty close to paying off for a while there.
- I agree that Big-5 conference opportunity is over in the short term, but I disagree that the Big 5 conference opportunity is over permanently (I'm assuming you are implying such). 2023 could be a seismic shift for all of college football and I think BYU could be in the realignment picture at that time.
- Do you have any evidence/arguments to support your assertion that the ESPN money will be "significantly reduced"?
- Do you have any arguments beyond "something to play for" for your assertion that BYU would be better served in a (non-Big 5) conference assuming the ESPN money isn't significantly reduced?
I agree that there is some small validity to the "rivalries and something to play for" argument. The issue is whether "rivalries and something to play for" outweighs the reduced exposure and reduced money? I assert they don't based on the following points:
1. We already play our true rival each year as Independents (Utah).
2. We already play the regional pseudo-rivals each and former conference foes (Utah State, Boise State, SDSU, UNLV, Hawaii, SJSU, Nevada, etc.) as Independents.
3. We can soften the schedule and rebuild as easily as an Independent as we could in a conference. A conference doesn't necessarily make it easier to soften the schedule. In fact, a conference could actually make it harder depending on upon the strength of the conference in a given year. Being an Independent doesn't mean we are forced to schedule LSU, Mississippi State, and Wisconsin in the same year.
4. The money in a conference is certainly less.
5. The exposure in a conference is certainly less.
So, I put my 5 points up against the fuzzy benefits of "rivalries and something to play for" that you are asserting and conclude that as long as the ESPN money and exposure don't change significantly, being Independent is a better option than joining a non-Power 5 conference. If the ESPN money and exposure do change significantly then I would most likely change my position and agree with you. Until then, I think my analysis is sound. But feel free to point out any flaws you see in my analysis.Last edited by BigFatMeanie; 11-20-2017, 11:19 AM.
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Originally posted by Shaka View PostOut of this subject thread, football talk, or this board in general? Come on JL, if you want me gone you've got all the power you need. Give me the Full Santos or maybe our version is the Rocky Balboa.
It's a bit sad that there isn't much football talk on this board that can go beyond the surface level. It used to be great but most of those guys rarely post.
As I'm writing this my email just informed me that Hot Lunch, who's football takes are sorely missed, quoted my post on this thread. I have yet to read his post but I'm guessing it was regarding my response to JIC. to be clear he's one of the guys to whom I'm referring in my sentence above."Take it to the Bank"
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Originally posted by Jarid in Cedar View PostUtah's current offensive rankings :
Scoring: 64th
Total offense: 54th
Passing offense: 40th
Rushing offense: 85th
Pedestrian and subpar for certain, but I'll take our problems right now.Dyslexics are teople poo...
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Originally posted by Jarid in Cedar View PostResponses like this make me want to hang around longer. BYU has been so bad this year that I have avoided taking jabs out of pity. You could change my mind about that decision.Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.
"The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!
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Originally posted by Jarid in Cedar View PostI would also add that I am fine with Ty and hope he stays a long, long, long timeAs I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
--Kendrick Lamar
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Originally posted by Goatnapper'96 View PostThe biggest benefit of conference affiliation in football is that it gives a more balanced approach to scheduling. Schedules will better reflect what BYU is. This year is more of an aberration than what BYU really is. BYU still is a top tier MWC or AAC club so lets play in one of those conferences and measure ourselves vis-a-vis teams on similar grounding. If a big conference comes and wants us then we jump. We still will be able to play Utah every year and then another power team or two as well. If we play 30 power teams a decade we should be able to win 8-10, so about 1/year. Get back to winning and recruiting will improve subtly. LDS top tier kids will give BYU an ear if they feel they have a legit chance to do something significant on the field and still get to the NFL. Scheduling balance is a key to get back to winning. I don't care if it is the MWC or the AAC to where BYU goes, that is a complex issue that includes what is better for hoops and the olympic sports as well. I do realize while football has not fared well with Independence it seems to me there has been improvement in other programs.Dyslexics are teople poo...
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Originally posted by Shaka View PostI agree, we should find a conference and rebuild. We have other issues that need to be addressed but the current approach isn't doable. Exposure and the ability for fans in West Virginia shouldn't be concerns.Dyslexics are teople poo...
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Originally posted by Flystripper View PostExposure can be terrible. Some of our ancestors died from exposure! Give me a conference fig leaf please! We are naked!As I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
--Kendrick Lamar
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