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Thread: Anthem Mania

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    Trump-hating snowflake Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    I thought the transgender bathroom thing was the dumbest battle in the history of culture wars, but I think the kneeling-during-the-anthem thing has topped it. So much stupidity and posturing on both sides. Unreal.
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    Trump-hating snowflake Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Ben Shapiro has done a pretty good job skewering the idiocy on both sides of the issue:

    http://www.dailywire.com/news/21472/...t-ben-shapiro#

    Here’s the bottom line: this conflict isn’t good for the country. We need our shared symbols, and we need our shared spaces. Both of those elements are being destroyed for political and ratings gain. If that doesn’t stop, we’re not going to have anything at all in common anymore.
    "Socialism is not bad IMHO" - byu71
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.

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    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Jeeesh. A stupid protest that a stupid POTUS threw gasoline on.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Ben Shapiro has done a pretty good job skewering the idiocy on both sides of the issue:

    http://www.dailywire.com/news/21472/...t-ben-shapiro#



    Best thing anyone could do was ignore Colin Kaepernick, but Trump is turning him into some hero. It's not helping that is trying to bully professional sports leagues into doing his bidding either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    Best thing anyone could do was ignore Colin Kaepernick, but Trump is turning him into some hero. It's not helping that is trying to bully professional sports leagues into doing his bidding either.
    It's really important to Trump to divide up the country into those who love him and those who don't. Then go from there. Typical fascist technique.
    Last edited by BlueK; 09-26-2017 at 07:34 AM.

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    What a difference a year makes:

    https://youtu.be/VPqOotT_ta8

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    Trump-hating snowflake Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    What a difference a year makes:

    https://youtu.be/VPqOotT_ta8
    Remember when people would complain about Obama being divisive? Good times.
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    When I was in middle school, I used to wonder how different the world would be if me or one of my peers were POTUS. Now I know.
    Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

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    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Monstah View Post
    When I was in middle school, I used to wonder how different the world would be if me or one of my peers were POTUS. Now I know.
    Not sure I would consider Trump to be a peer.

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    Semper infra dignitatem PaloAltoCougar's Avatar
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    A president with genuine intelligence and a real understanding of the issue (and without question, Trump has neither) would be able to defuse this stupid issue and do much to unite the country. But in Trump's twisted, demagogic mind that would work against his number one goal--adoration from his base.

    I like Eric Reid's explanation of why he and Kap did what they did:
    We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture. I remember thinking our posture was like a flag flown at half-mast to mark a tragedy. It baffles me that our protest is still being misconstrued as disrespectful to the country, flag and military personnel. We chose it because it’s exactly the opposite. It has always been my understanding that the brave men and women who fought and died for our country did so to ensure that we could live in a fair and free society, which includes the right to speak out in protest.

    It should go without saying that I love my country and I’m proud to be an American. But, to quote James Baldwin, “exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.”

    I can’t find words that appropriately express how heartbroken I am to see the constant smears against Colin, a person who helped start the movement with only the very best of intentions. We are talking about a man who helped to orchestrate a commercial planeful of food and supplies for famine-stricken Somalia. A man who has invested his time and money into needy communities here at home. A man I am proud to call my brother, who should be celebrated for his courage to seek change on important issues. Instead, to this day, he is unemployed and portrayed as a radical un-American who wants to divide our country.
    It's weird that kneeling and bowing one's head is thought by Trumpians to be the worst form of disrespect.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    Best thing anyone could do was ignore Colin Kaepernick, but Trump is turning him into some hero. It's not helping that is trying to bully professional sports leagues into doing his bidding either.
    Colin who? Who does he play for?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Remember when people would complain about Obama being divisive? Good times.
    But just imagine how much worse it would be with Hillary!

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    Senior Member byu71's Avatar
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    It would be hypocritical of me to condemn the players.

    I never stand for Rise and Shout. I am protesting the HC.

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    Senior Member Omaha 680's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    A president with genuine intelligence and a real understanding of the issue (and without question, Trump has neither) would be able to defuse this stupid issue and do much to unite the country. But in Trump's twisted, demagogic mind that would work against his number one goal--adoration from his base.

    I like Eric Reid's explanation of why he and Kap did what they did:


    It's weird that kneeling and bowing one's head is thought by Trumpians to be the worst form of disrespect.
    While I dislike the chosen form of protest, it doesn't outrage me and I certainly don't thin it should be curtailed. On Colin: if I remember correctly he began his protest by sitting on the bench during the anthem alone. When he got backlash for being disrespectful he changed to taking a knee. Kneeling is definitely better.

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    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omaha 680 View Post
    While I dislike the chosen form of protest, it doesn't outrage me and I certainly don't thin it should be curtailed. On Colin: if I remember correctly he began his protest by sitting on the bench during the anthem alone. When he got backlash for being disrespectful he changed to taking a knee. Kneeling is definitely better.
    As I recall, Kaepernick changed to kneeling after discussing the issue with a former Navy Seal who told him it would be a more respectful way to approach the matter.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  16. #16
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    I love how Jerry Jones and the Cowboys ("America's Team") are making Sean Hannity's and Newt Gingrich's heads explode... Of course, the Cowboys, being the kind of good hearted people they are, did stand up during the national anthem.



    I would love to see what would happen if NASCAR drivers start taking a knee.

    BTW, it seems that God still smiles down upon His team even after they all took a knee.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
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    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    A president with genuine intelligence and a real understanding of the issue (and without question, Trump has neither) would be able to defuse this stupid issue and do much to unite the country. But in Trump's twisted, demagogic mind that would work against his number one goal--adoration from his base.

    I like Eric Reid's explanation of why he and Kap did what they did:


    It's weird that kneeling and bowing one's head is thought by Trumpians to be the worst form of disrespect.
    I really appreciated that article. It was well-written and heartfelt.

    Quote Originally Posted by byu71 View Post
    It would be hypocritical of me to condemn the players.

    I never stand for Rise and Shout. I am protesting the HC.
    Booooo! Booooo!

  18. #18
    Trump-hating snowflake Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    A president with genuine intelligence and a real understanding of the issue (and without question, Trump has neither) would be able to defuse this stupid issue and do much to unite the country. But in Trump's twisted, demagogic mind that would work against his number one goal--adoration from his base.

    I like Eric Reid's explanation of why he and Kap did what they did:

    Well, that is one way to characterize Kap. You can also characterize him (based on his tweets, public statements, etc.) as someone with poor judgment, a poor grasp of basic logic, and a questionable understanding of social issues. But he seems to be sincere. I will give him that.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    It's weird that kneeling and bowing one's head is thought by Trumpians to be the worst form of disrespect.
    Really? You are surprised that people would be upset at a protest of the national anthem? I would be shocked if people weren't triggered by that.

    Kap should have been ignored. Trump is an idiot.
    "Socialism is not bad IMHO" - byu71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Well, that is one way to characterize Kap. You can also characterize him (based on his tweets, public statements, etc.) as someone with poor judgment, a poor grasp of basic logic, and a questionable understanding of social issues. But he seems to be sincere. I will give him that.



    Really? You are surprised that people would be upset at a protest of the national anthem? I would be shocked if people weren't triggered by that.

    Kap should have been ignored. Trump is an idiot.
    Yes, yes, and yes. Kap is not the perfect spokesperson for social change, far from it. But even though we can criticize him or the exact impetus, he has started something positive. Some of the recent heartfelt interviews with players that are more 'acceptable' to the public at large resonated with me. I hope that whatever the circus surrounding the protests devolves into, that the awareness of social injustice increases amongst the citizens.

    And yes, Trump is an idiot.

  20. #20
    Trump-hating snowflake Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    http://www.dailywire.com/news/21561/...ck-ben-shapiro

    Politics has become the art of forcing people into false binaries. It’s about suggesting that my political opponents are utterly unpalatable, and therefore no matter what I say, you must support me. This was the essence of 2016: both candidates made the same case along those lines.

    But what happens when choices simply aren’t binary? What if we reduce American unity to a binary split for political gain?

    That’s what we’re watching right now.
    These false choices make the country worse. They prevent us from reaching consensus. They prevent us from even discussing the issues. Instead of addressing issues one-by-one, we pick a hot button action and then interpret it through the lens of our own choosing. We don’t debate a la 12 Angry Men; we insist on our own points of view, a la Rashomon.

    But that’s not the recipe for a successful republic. If we can’t agree on basic principles – the flag is worth standing for, and so is the First Amendment – then we won’t have a republic much longer.
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    Semper infra dignitatem PaloAltoCougar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Really? You are surprised that people would be upset at a protest of the national anthem? I would be shocked if people weren't triggered by that.
    Not surprised, just that it's weird. They're not spitting/stomping/peeing on the flag. They're not trying to drown out the anthem. One could fashion an argument that bowing one's head and kneeling is the ultimate sign of respect (not saying that's the protestors' intent, either).

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    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    Not surprised, just that it's weird. They're not spitting/stomping/peeing on the flag. They're not trying to drown out the anthem. One could fashion an argument that bowing one's head and kneeling is the ultimate sign of respect (not saying that's the protestors' intent, either).
    One could make that argument, but it's not very effective, particularly in this context. I've never heard of kneeling with one's head down as a way to address the flag during the playing of the national anthem (until Kaepernik changed his tune a bit). It is still a protest. Traditionally we stand in respect.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    One could make that argument, but it's not very effective, particularly in this context. I've never heard of kneeling with one's head down as a way to address the flag during the playing of the national anthem (until Kaepernik changed his tune a bit). It is still a protest. Traditionally we stand in respect.
    I don't think it's a good argument. Stand, face the flag, and put your right hand over your heart. That's how you respect the flag and honor the vets who fought for it. I used to get pissed off when I'd watch athletes stand there with their hands at their side looking at anything but the flag, oftentimes their shoes. Kneeling was never a way to show honor in this respect.

    There are worse ways to dishonor the flag such as burning and taking a dump on it. There are probably a few others. However, I have zero problem with those who take offense. There are other ways to effect social change rather than substituting social outrage for an act that honors those who fought and died for their country.

  24. #24
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    Yeah, if I was a Colts fan I would maybe burn my season tickets as well... but for other reasons:




    Their win over cleveland was a fluke. Of course, they might beat seattle, however.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
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    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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    The Sunday night game ratings was the lowest NBC has had since Week 3 in 2006. And the matchup wasn't that bad (although the game wasn't particularly close by the 4th quarter), I was kind of intrigued by it. It also featured teams from the #6 and #7 largest media markets. Why the NFL is allowing this is baffling, I assume they don't fully understand the effect it's having. But if this continues, the NFL will deal with it. Look at what happens to these players every time the owners lock them out -- the owners get everything they want.
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
    The Sunday night game ratings was the lowest NBC has had since Week 3 in 2006. And the matchup wasn't that bad (although the game wasn't particularly close by the 4th quarter), I was kind of intrigued by it. It also featured teams from the #6 and #7 largest media markets. Why the NFL is allowing this is baffling, I assume they don't fully understand the effect it's having. But if this continues, the NFL will deal with it. Look at what happens to these players every time the owners lock them out -- the owners get everything they want.
    The Cowboys can still pull them in... http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...up-for-week-3/

    Cowboys-Cardinals got a 9.3 overnight rating for ESPN, easily the highest-rated Monday night game of the year. That came despite some talk that the controversy surrounding players kneeling during the national anthem would depress NFL ratings.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  27. #27
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Last night I watched the first half of MNF. I turned it on right as they kicked off so I don't know what any of the teams did for the anthem and I frankly don't care (I'm an entitled middle aged white guy after all )

    What I don't get is what is their protest? What do they expect to see happen because of the protest? Socio-economic injustice? Racial profiling? What? Are they going to kneel until racism is wiped off the land? The protest is different than other pros tests that had specific goals (eliminate segregation, allow blacks to vote, etc). It's disjointed much like Occupy Wall Street and will end just as unsatisfactorily for all involved.


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  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    The Cowboys can still pull them in... http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...up-for-week-3/
    The Week 3 Monday night game last year went up against the presidential debate. But if the networks had their say, they'd have the Cowboys on in primetime every week.
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    Last night I watched the first half of MNF. I turned it on right as they kicked off so I don't know what any of the teams did for the anthem and I frankly don't care (I'm an entitled middle aged white guy after all )

    What I don't get is what is their protest? What do they expect to see happen because of the protest? Socio-economic injustice? Racial profiling? What? Are they going to kneel until racism is wiped off the land? The protest is different than other pros tests that had specific goals (eliminate segregation, allow blacks to vote, etc). It's disjointed much like Occupy Wall Street and will end just as unsatisfactorily for all involved.
    I thought it was about getting the cheerleaders the same pay as the players get. I am all for that as long as it does raise the ticket prices.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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    Semper infra dignitatem PaloAltoCougar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    One could make that argument, but it's not very effective, particularly in this context. I've never heard of kneeling with one's head down as a way to address the flag during the playing of the national anthem (until Kaepernik changed his tune a bit). It is still a protest. Traditionally we stand in respect.
    Understood. I just don't have a problem with those who protest in a relatively benign way. And it's interesting to me that what really bugs people is, I presume, the fact they're protesting at all, not the manner in which they're doing so. For example, years ago I, along with several guys in dirty clothes, unwashed hair and smudged faces, burned the American flag. The OUTRAGE!, right? But the event occurred at the end of a long Acorn-training camping trip and we were retiring the colors after it had become threadbare from years of respectful use, with the ashes to be placed in a container with ashes of flags from around the country. OK, then that's just fine. But what if while it was burning I was thinking, Death to America!?

    So are we condemning the act of kneeling, or what we believe they're thinking while they're doing so?

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