The inevitable march of secularism? Not so fast

[Sleeping in EQ]

A young wuap is taken to the doctor by his mother:

Annie Hall is wonderful.

[wuapinmon]

Wuap, I am sorry you are having a rough week. Hang in there, amigo.

A few years back I read a book on OT theology. The author pointed out that in the early part of the OT there is no mention of a heaven or an afterlife. It first appeared many centuries into the story. I hadn't ever noticed that before, but he was right. The author speculated that ancient peoples invented the concept of an afterlife to explain away the great injustices of life. "Yes, life is a bitch, but everything will be made right in the afterlife." A page or two back you speculated that maybe a belief in God in general is simply part of our DNA. That very well could be. Perhaps those of our ancestors who were able to attach some meaning and structure and justice and hope to life were more likely to be happy and attract mates and reproduce and not jump off a cliff or bash their heads against the cave wall. Perhaps natural selection as described by Darwin created religion. That would be ironic!

I think "meaning" can encompass many things. The only thing that is 100% real and does not require any faith or memory is the here and now. If you love someone and they love you, if you are doing things to serve and help others and make the world a better place RIGHT NOW, then your life has meaning in my book. That might be the only meaning that really matters.

By no means am I espousing apathy due to meaningless. I'm still ferocious in the face of bullying and injustice, and I fight for causes I believe in, but I don't kid myself that I can make much difference in a large way, because I'm no leader. I think globally, but act locally. I try and change the lives of individuals. I'm a damned good teacher.

Its hard to say what that SP meant when he said that. Why impute your worst interpretation onto his statement? If you believe in a deist God who wound us all up and now just watches us march toward out entropic end, then the Vegas shooting WAS part of His plan. Free will and its exercise being our ultimate purpose here, then how we deal with its exercise by others is also part of His plan, and so on. In other words, there are many possible ways to explain and support the Stake President's statement that should not lead you to hate him. That all said, you, too, need to find your happiness. We all do.

Because in priesthood, he elaborated by launching into a dissertation on our doctrine, that god's hand is everywhere, that D&C 59:21 is the doctrine of the church, and that while we might not like it and we might not understand why bad things happen to good people, it's all god's plan and we have to accept it. I sat there stewing, wanting to raise my hand and ask him how he squares the doctrine with the problem of theodicy, but I figured he'd never heard the word before, that I would've been scorned as the learnéd man, or worse, had my concerns dismissed as trivial and unworthy of concern because I'm supposed to "doubt my doubts."

But, even a deist doesn't have to believe in a prelapsarian watchmaker god. I created my children and loosed them upon the world, but I don't know what they're going to do. If there is a god, I don't believe that he is omniscient or that he acts in the world. And, I sure as hell don't believe in Molinism.

[creekster]

Because in priesthood, he elaborated by launching into a dissertation on our doctrine, that god's hand is everywhere, that D&C 59:21 is the doctrine of the church, and that while we might not like it and we might not understand why bad things happen to good people, it's all god's plan and we have to accept it. I sat there stewing, wanting to raise my hand and ask him how he squares the doctrine with the problem of theodicy, but I figured he'd never heard the word before, that I would've been scorned as the learnéd man, or worse, had my concerns dismissed as trivial and unworthy of concern because I'm supposed to "doubt my doubts."

But, even a deist doesn't have to believe in a prelapsarian watchmaker god. I created my children and loosed them upon the world, but I don't know what they're going to do. If there is a god, I don't believe that he is omniscient or that he acts in the world. And, I sure as hell don't believe in Molinism.

I disagree with that interpretation of 59:21. Saying God's hand is in everything is a truism. He is the Creator, after all, so of course his hand is in everything. I think the phrase is just to remind us that we remain below God, that he is supreme and we are not. It has nothing to do with saying that He causes everything to happen, and certainly not things like the Vegas massacre. But I know you have been around the church long enough not to let the wrongheaded approach of a leader turn you away.

Also, I don't much about Molinism, but I sure don't see how it helps solve any of the issues we are talking about here.

[Solon]

By no means am I espousing apathy due to meaningless. I'm still ferocious in the face of bullying and injustice, and I fight for causes I believe in, but I don't kid myself that I can make much difference in a large way, because I'm no leader. I think globally, but act locally. I try and change the lives of individuals. I'm a damned good teacher.

As Camus wrapped up The Myth of Sisyphus, he wrote that we must imagine Sisyphus happy.
wuap's right that life is absurd (Camus's term). As so many note above, it is not impossible to find satisfaction in the absurd.

Hang in there, wuap.

[wuapinmon]

I disagree with that interpretation of 59:21. Saying God's hand is in everything is a truism. He is the Creator, after all, so of course his hand is in everything. I think the phrase is just to remind us that we remain below God, that he is supreme and we are not. It has nothing to do with saying that He causes everything to happen, and certainly not things like the Vegas massacre. But I know you have been around the church long enough not to let the wrongheaded approach of a leader turn you away.

Also, I don't much about Molinism, but I sure don't see how it helps solve any of the issues we are talking about here.

The only wrong-headed approach of a leader that's going to turn me away is excommunication.

[Topper]

As Camus wrapped up The Myth of Sisyphus, he wrote that we must imagine Sisyphus happy.
wuap's right that life is absurd (Camus's term). As so many note above, it is not impossible to find satisfaction in the absurd.

Hang in there, wuap.

Good thoughts, Solon.

The struggle itself ... is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy

The Rebel,

All may indeed live again, side by side with the martyrs of 1905, but on condition that it is understood that they correct one another, and that a limit, under the sun, shall curb them all. Each tells the other that he is not God; this is the end of romanticism. At this moment, when each of us must fit an arrow to his bow and enter the lists anew, to reconquer, within history and in spite of it, that which he owns already, the thin yield of his fields, the brief love of this earth, at this moment when at last a man is born, it is time to forsake our age and its adolescent furies. The bow bends; the wood complains. At the moment of supreme tension, there will leap into flight an unswerving arrow, a shaft that is inflexible and free.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Oh yes.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...arization.html