Impeaching Trump: Make America Sane Again

[SeattleUte]

Sorry, that is not a compelling op-ed piece. The LBJ comparison was dumb. The Lincoln case was arguably more similar, but still a stretch. Furthermore, what constitutes a “high crime or misdemeanor” is by definition is subjective question.

I think trump should be impeached as he clearly misused presidential power for personal gain. I can’t believe anyone could honestly believe otherwise. But the senate won’t do anything so let’s wrap up this farce and remove this clown via the ballot box.

It's not quite this simple. The essential facts are not in dispute. We all know what Trump did. He withheld military aid authorized by Congress to try to induce Ukraine to announce and undertake an investigation of the Bidens. This is a travesty, but the question remains whether this is an impeachable offense. That's an entirely political question that is very subjective and not as simple as Watergate. In Watergate, there was a burglary--indubitably a crime, a felony--and an attempted cover up of this very concrete crime.

I submit that how you answer the impeachable offense question depends entirely on your politics. If you believe that Republicans are entirely devoid of any decency and there ought to be a Final Solution for them--like many of my facebook friends do--then the answer is "hell yes!" it's an impeachable offense.

But several factors complicate this situation politically--and make no mistake, whether in the Senate or at the ballot box, this is a political process. First, the democrats have injured their credibility by their constant quest for impeachment from the very start, including a very weak collusion or conspiracy with Russia (whatever you want to call it) case. Second, unlike Watergate, there is no root crime. Yes, the Inspector General said a law was broken, but this is a civil statute, and I understand that numerous presidents have broken this same law (by exercising discretion to delay aid authorized by Congress) and nobody really cared and there's a remedy in the statute--a civil suit for injunction. Third, there are a couple of democratic candidates that many centrists, independents and moderate republicans who dislike Trump regard as downright atrocious because of their extremely leftist positions and, and, frankly, as to at least one of them, a questionable record for truth telling. Fourth, Hunter Biden is really a gross person who has done nothing but profit from his father's name and achievements and left a trail of abandoned responsibilities. Why can't he get a real job?

[Uncle Ted]

So Maxine Waters is a very far left individual. She does not represent pulse of the Democratic Party any more than Steve King does the GOP.

Yes, the Dem Party belongs to The Squad now. Pelosi and Co. needs to just retire and get the hell out of the way.

LOL@Feinstein... Even she is tired of Schiffhead's blabbering:

Embedded Tweet

[Topper]

It's not quite this simple. The essential facts are not in dispute. We all know what Trump did. He withheld military aid authorized by Congress to try to induce Ukraine to announce and undertake an investigation of the Bidens. This is a travesty, but the question remains whether this is an impeachable offense. That's an entirely political question that is very subjective and not as simple as Watergate. In Watergate, there was a burglary--indubitably a crime, a felony--and an attempted cover up of this very concrete crime.

I submit that how you answer the impeachable offense question depends entirely on your politics. If you believe that Republicans are entirely devoid of any decency and there ought to be a Final Solution for them--like many of my facebook friends do--then the answer is "hell yes!" it's an impeachable offense.

But several factors complicate this situation politically--and make no mistake, whether in the Senate or at the ballot box, this is a political process. First, the democrats have injured their credibility by their constant quest for impeachment from the very start, including a very weak collusion or conspiracy with Russia (whatever you want to call it) case. Second, unlike Watergate, there is no root crime. Yes, the Inspector General said a law was broken, but this is a civil statute, and I understand that numerous presidents have broken this same law (by exercising discretion to delay aid authorized by Congress) and nobody really cared and there's a remedy in the statute--a civil suit for injunction. Third, there are a couple of democratic candidates that many centrists, independents and moderate republicans who dislike Trump regard as downright atrocious because of their extremely leftist positions and, and, frankly, as to at least one of them, a questionable record for truth telling. Fourth, Hunter Biden is really a gross person who has done nothing but profit from his father's name and achievements and left a trail of abandoned responsibilities. Why can't he get a real job?

Thanks for summarizing the issues.

[Eddie]

That the democrats don't like him and have wanted him out I don't see how is relevant to whether he did something wrong or not in this instance. It's a nonsense defense.

So Maxine Waters is a very far left individual. She does not represent pulse of the Democratic Party any more than Steve King does the GOP.

I don't disagree - with either of these sentiments. Though I do want to say that while Waters isn't necessarily mainstream Dem, I do believe many have been thinking (that they want to impeach Trump) what she has been saying. They're just smart enough to not crow about it.

It is correct that the fact that they've said they were going to impeach him from the moment he was sworn into office certainly doesn't mean that he should be allowed to get away with doing whatever he wants to do. I'm simply trying to explain why there is a sense of conspiracy - and those who support Trump don't trust the Dem's because the Dem's have said all along that they were going to get him.

I'm just answering the question. There is a reason that they believe there's been a conspiracy and that the Dems have been out to get Trump (with the help of the left-wing fake news media, of course) - and it doesn't help that they've had multiple items that they've been investigating him on before finally finding one they could move to impeachment on.

[Uncle Ted]

It's not quite this simple. The essential facts are not in dispute. We all know what Trump did. He withheld military aid authorized by Congress to try to induce Ukraine to announce and undertake an investigation of the Bidens. This is a travesty, but the question remains whether this is an impeachable offense. That's an entirely political question that is very subjective and not as simple as Watergate. In Watergate, there was a burglary--indubitably a crime, a felony--and an attempted cover up of this very concrete crime.

I submit that how you answer the impeachable offense question depends entirely on your politics. If you believe that Republicans are entirely devoid of any decency and there ought to be a Final Solution for them--like many of my facebook friends do--then the answer is "hell yes!" it's an impeachable offense.

But several factors complicate this situation politically--and make no mistake, whether in the Senate or at the ballot box, this is a political process. First, the democrats have injured their credibility by their constant quest for impeachment from the very start, including a very weak collusion or conspiracy with Russia (whatever you want to call it) case. Second, unlike Watergate, there is no root crime. Yes, the Inspector General said a law was broken, but this is a civil statute, and I understand that numerous presidents have broken this same law (by exercising discretion to delay aid authorized by Congress) and nobody really cared and there's a remedy in the statute--a civil suit for injunction. Third, there are a couple of democratic candidates that many centrists, independents and moderate republicans who dislike Trump regard as downright atrocious because of their extremely leftist positions and, and, frankly, as to at least one of them, a questionable record for truth telling. Fourth, Hunter Biden is really a gross person who ty as done nothing but profit from his father's name and achievements and left a trail of abandoned responsibilities. Why can't he get a real job?

Yeah for me it comes down to the Bidens... If they are corrupt then they should be investigated. Hunter is a crackhead, whore chaster and really a disgusting person in general but maybe he deserved to be paid that $166,000 per month to do nothing on that shown to be very corrupt energy company's board. He should testify and clear up all the stuff coming out about him pretty much on a daily basis now.

If the Dems were smart

Spoiler for those that don't see the obvious:

The Dems are not smart

they would let the Bidens try to defend themselves because you know the Drumpf lawyers are going to bring all this Biden corruption stuff out when it is their turn. It should be very entertaining.

[Jeff Lebowski]

It's not quite this simple. The essential facts are not in dispute. We all know what Trump did. He withheld military aid authorized by Congress to try to induce Ukraine to announce and undertake an investigation of the Bidens. This is a travesty, but the question remains whether this is an impeachable offense. That's an entirely political question that is very subjective and not as simple as Watergate. In Watergate, there was a burglary--indubitably a crime, a felony--and an attempted cover up of this very concrete crime.

I submit that how you answer the impeachable offense question depends entirely on your politics. If you believe that Republicans are entirely devoid of any decency and there ought to be a Final Solution for them--like many of my facebook friends do--then the answer is "hell yes!" it's an impeachable offense.

But several factors complicate this situation politically--and make no mistake, whether in the Senate or at the ballot box, this is a political process. First, the democrats have injured their credibility by their constant quest for impeachment from the very start, including a very weak collusion or conspiracy with Russia (whatever you want to call it) case. Second, unlike Watergate, there is no root crime. Yes, the Inspector General said a law was broken, but this is a civil statute, and I understand that numerous presidents have broken this same law (by exercising discretion to delay aid authorized by Congress) and nobody really cared and there's a remedy in the statute--a civil suit for injunction. Third, there are a couple of democratic candidates that many centrists, independents and moderate republicans who dislike Trump regard as downright atrocious because of their extremely leftist positions and, and, frankly, as to at least one of them, a questionable record for truth telling. Fourth, Hunter Biden is really a gross person who has done nothing but profit from his father's name and achievements and left a trail of abandoned responsibilities. Why can't he get a real job?

We are saying the same thing. It is subjective and not the kind of circumstances that would generate bipartisan support. And Trump is a dangerous moron. Let's move on.

[Katy Lied]

Back to Clinton, "It's about the economy stupid." The economy is doing splendidly, as measured by me and mine. Our ward employment specialist has no work. When you compare my current purchasing power vs. 5 years ago, there is no contest. My investments in the stock market and my 401K is sky high. Compare my wealth vs "Trump trying to bring foreign influence into our election," who cares. In fact, I see the impeachment shenanigans as a luxury afforded by the fact that people dont have to worry about their jobs.

I dislike Trump and didn't vote for him. Pence may do better for the economy, or not. But if political hatred brings about a downturn in the economy which affect my wallet, I'm going to be pissed.

[creekster]

I don't disagree - with either of these sentiments. Though I do want to say that while Waters isn't necessarily mainstream Dem, I do believe many have been thinking (that they want to impeach Trump) what she has been saying. They're just smart enough to not crow about it.

It is correct that the fact that they've said they were going to impeach him from the moment he was sworn into office certainly doesn't mean that he should be allowed to get away with doing whatever he wants to do. I'm simply trying to explain why there is a sense of conspiracy - and those who support Trump don't trust the Dem's because the Dem's have said all along that they were going to get him.

I'm just answering the question. There is a reason that they believe there's been a conspiracy and that the Dems have been out to get Trump (with the help of the left-wing fake news media, of course) - and it doesn't help that they've had multiple items that they've been investigating him on before finally finding one they could move to impeachment on.

ALso, Al Green has called for Trump's impeachment since before the election and has even said impeachment is necessary to prevent Trump from being re-elected. Waters is a nut, clearly, but Green is right there with her and others, including Tlaib ("impeach the motherf----r!"), have expressed the same sentiments either implicitly or explicitly.

[SeattleUte]

Romney said last night that democrats regard everything Trump does as an outrage, and if everything is an outrage, nothing is. He's right.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Back to Clinton, "It's about the economy stupid." The economy is doing splendidly, as measured by me and mine. Our ward employment specialist has no work. When you compare my current purchasing power vs. 5 years ago, there is no contest. My investments in the stock market and my 401K is sky high. Compare my wealth vs "Trump trying to bring foreign influence into our election," who cares. In fact, I see the impeachment shenanigans as a luxury afforded by the fact that people dont have to worry about their jobs.

I dislike Trump and didn't vote for him. Pence may do better for the economy, or not. But if political hatred brings about a downturn in the economy which affect my wallet, I'm going to be pissed.

There you go. As long as we get our $$$, screw ethics and constitutional principles, right?

[Uncle Ted]

Back to Clinton, "It's about the economy stupid." The economy is doing splendidly, as measured by me and mine. Our ward employment specialist has no work. When you compare my current purchasing power vs. 5 years ago, there is no contest. My investments in the stock market and my 401K is sky high. Compare my wealth vs "Trump trying to bring foreign influence into our election," who cares. In fact, I see the impeachment shenanigans as a luxury afforded by the fact that people dont have to worry about their jobs.

I dislike Trump and didn't vote for him. Pence may do better for the economy, or not. But if political hatred brings about a downturn in the economy which affect my wallet, I'm going to be pissed.

I don't think an impeachment and kicking Drumpf out of the white house will be good for the economy. I told my broker already if this impeachment thing looks like it is going to go then it is time to pull out to the sideline and then go bargain shopping. In some ways this could be good. The market seems a little over heated and could use a correction.

[SeattleUte]

There you go. As long as we get our $$$, screw ethics and constitutional principles, right?

They all abuse the office one way or another. What about the Obama administrations interference in the 2016 election with the reprehensible acts by the FBI that the Inspector General identified? Spying on the Trump campaign, violating civil liberties, etc. And I'm still not ready to cast him out as a terrible despotic president. Johnson lied about money he was secretly redirecting from the war on poverty to Vietnam. His campaign stuffed ballot boxes in early elections. Should the driving force behind the Civil Rights Act have been impeached or regarded as beyond redemption?

You need to be more tolerant of human foibles and the messiness of our system.

Economic distress brought about WWII, the holocaust, the French Reign of Terror, on and on. Don't poo poo its importance.

[LVAllen]

Romney said last night that democrats regard everything Trump does as an outrage, and if everything is an outrage, nothing is. He's right.

And meanwhile, his FB posts have been filled with nothing but venom-spewing Republicans expressing their outrage that he would dare promise to keep an open mind and consider carefully the matter before him.

[Jeff Lebowski]

They all abuse the office one way or another. What about the Obama administrations interference in the 2016 election with the reprehensible acts by the FBI that the Inspector General identified? Spying on the Trump campaign, violating civil liberties, etc. And I'm still not ready to cast him out as a terrible despotic president. Johnson lied about money he was secretly redirecting from the war on poverty to Vietnam. His campaign stuffed ballot boxes in early elections. Should the driving force behind the Civil Rights Act have been impeached or regarded as beyond redemption?

You need to be more tolerant of human foibles and the messiness of our system.

Economic distress brought about WWII, the holocaust, the French Reign of Terror, on and on. Don't poo poo its importance.

Oh believe me, I am a staunch supporter of capitalism. But god help us if we can't value both a strong economy and ethical government.

[BlueK]

I do not intend to watch the trial, only to watch those watching the trial. My reasons are mostly pragmatic and lack of interest. I don't have the time to spend hours watching politicians pontificate, but my initial observations of the trial watchers are that there must be two trials going on, one that the Democrats are watching and one that the GOP voters are watching. So watching the watchers is more fun than watching the trial. Plus, it doesn't take as much time.

FWIW, I haven't been watching either. It's not a trial. McConnell has made sure of that and by his own admission is in direct coordination with Trump's defense team. We'll see if the GOP takes a political hit in November for that. I think they probably will.