Impeaching Trump: Make America Sane Again

[creekster]

We can't attack Turkey and help protect our allies in Syria because Turkey is a NATO country. So maybe NATO should get off their collective asses and do something about this.

This is an interesting discussion, but I am not sure about your point. You are highlighting the idiocy of Trump's decision. Before he moved the troops, there was no need to even consider what to do about Turkish attacks on our allies in Syria because they were never going to attack as long as we were there.

[Uncle Ted]

This is an interesting discussion, but I am not sure about your point. You are highlighting the idiocy of Trump's decision. Before he moved the troops, there was no need to even consider what to do about Turkish attacks on our allies in Syria because they were never going to attack as long as we were there.

Maybe NATO (i.e., not just US) troops should be there.

[creekster]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...onship/599890/

Here is a recent article about Turkey's role in NATO.

[creekster]

Maybe NATO (i.e., not just US) troops should be there.

That's irrelevant to the issue. We were not there as a peacekeeping force, and NATO is not a good peacekeeping entity.

One can argue we should not have been in Syria. One can argue we should not have used the Kurds as proxies. But, given the reality of the facts on the ground, there does not seem to be any plausibly reasonable argument to support or explain Trump's decision, except he got rolled by erdogan in a phone call. Really, that's it.

[Bo Diddley]

Turkey was a roadblock during the Iraq invasion. We were supposed to come down through Turkey with the 101st, but came up with everyone else through Kuwait instead. It was a real logjam.

[snowcat]

That's irrelevant to the issue. We were not there as a peacekeeping force, and NATO is not a good peacekeeping entity.

One can argue we should not have been in Syria. One can argue we should not have used the Kurds as proxies. But, given the reality of the facts on the ground, there does not seem to be any plausibly reasonable argument to support or explain Trump's decision, except he got rolled by erdogan in a phone call. Really, that's it.

I think this has more to do with realigning with the Saudi's over Iran. Obama used Iran and Iran acceptable proxies to deal with ISIS. Trump is shifting to a Saudi centric anti Iran middle east policies.

I don't like either side on this, but I have a big problem selling out those who fought on our behalf now. The US chose to use the Syrian Kurds. They deserve better than this. Why would anyone want work with the US in the middle east? We love you today, but after the next election...

[Uncle Ted]

Turkey was a roadblock during the Iraq invasion. We were supposed to come down through Turkey with the 101st, but came up with everyone else through Kuwait instead. It was a real logjam.

Turkey doesn't seem like much of an ally.

[UVACoug]

We can't attack Turkey and help protect our allies in Syria because Turkey is a NATO country. So maybe NATO should get off their collective asses and do something about this.

Who is talking about attacking Turkey? Our mere presence there was enough to mostly stop either side from attacking the other. No way is Turkey going to attack US soldiers to get at the Kurds.

I think there may have be good reasons to pull all ground forces out of Syria, but the way it was executed is horrendous. He knew that Turkey wanted the US out so they could kill Kurds, and he knew that by leaving abruptly he was leaving the Kurds as sitting ducks with no real time for the anticipate the Turkish advance. At a minimum, the withdrawal should have been announced ahead of time to let the Kurds prepare.

This is a big deal to me. Far more impeachment worthy than the stupid Ukraine or Russia stuff, IMO.

[Bo Diddley]

Who is talking about attacking Turkey? Our mere presence there was enough to mostly stop either side from attacking the other. No way is Turkey going to attack US soldiers to get at the Kurds.

I think there may have be good reasons to pull all ground forces out of Syria, but the way it was executed is horrendous. He knew that Turkey wanted the US out so they could kill Kurds, and he knew that by leaving abruptly he was leaving the Kurds as sitting ducks with no real time for the anticipate the Turkish advance. At a minimum, the withdrawal should have been announced ahead of time to let the Kurds prepare.

This is a big deal to me. Far more impeachment worthy than the stupid Ukraine or Russia stuff, IMO.

Sure it's a bigger deal. But more impeachment worthy? Absolutely not. I'm speaking academically here, because I will in no way defend what Trump has done.

[creekster]

Sure it's a bigger deal. But more impeachment worthy? Absolutely not. I'm speaking academically here, because I will in no way defend what Trump has done.

Agree on both counts.

[myboynoah]

so funny

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[myboynoah]

so classic

Live updates: Trump tells reporters he doesn’t know if Giuliani is still his attorney

[frank ryan]

Who is talking about attacking Turkey? Our mere presence there was enough to mostly stop either side from attacking the other. No way is Turkey going to attack US soldiers to get at the Kurds.

I think there may have be good reasons to pull all ground forces out of Syria, but the way it was executed is horrendous. He knew that Turkey wanted the US out so they could kill Kurds, and he knew that by leaving abruptly he was leaving the Kurds as sitting ducks with no real time for the anticipate the Turkish advance. At a minimum, the withdrawal should have been announced ahead of time to let the Kurds prepare.

This is a big deal to me. Far more impeachment worthy than the stupid Ukraine or Russia stuff, IMO.

I’m not disagreeing with you, but it’s worth noting we don’t know the extent of the Russia situation. Mueller’s mandate was quite narrow. Trump’s people refused to cooperate with probe several instances. Mueller also talked about electronic communications being destroyed or made unavailable. Presently, Trump is hiding the details of his conversations with Putin.

But with all we know, you’re correct. Trump betrayed our most reliable ally (no, that was not Israel) in the Middle East, destroyed important intelligence source and made us all unsafer while green lighting the slaughter of women and children.

[frank ryan]

Turkey doesn't seem like much of an ally.

In many ways they aren’t, and it’s getting worse under Erdogan, but Turkey’s geographic location make them such a strategic member of NATO and they are also home to some of our nukes. But they are a shitty ally in practical terms.

[Eddie]

so classic

Live updates: Trump tells reporters he doesn’t know if Giuliani is still his attorney

This is kind of historic, no? Isn't this the first time Trump has admitted that he doesn't know something?

I mean - sometimes in his rants speculating about what other people say or do, he says he doesn't know for sure what they're thinking.

But this time he is actually admitting to not knowing something.

Mark it down!