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Thread: Social Media Outrage Culture

  1. #91
    Huge Member BigPiney's Avatar
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    Good advice that unfortunately no one will take.

  2. #92
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    It would be nice if the school got the boys together, especially punchable face Nick Sandmann, and reached out to Nathan Phillips to set things right, apologizing for their role in this misunderstanding. Philips was clearly upset by what happened and as a senior and a veteran, deserves that respect and response. No doubt it would elicit a similar response from him.

    That is the advice the adults in the room should be giving. It would put all the critics in their place and gain the high ground for the school and those boys.

    But sadly, I doubt that will happen. We're living in Trump's MAGA America.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  3. #93

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    I hadn’t paid much attention to the Lincoln Memorial story. I did see something on Twitter tonight that said Black Hebrew Israelites we’re in involved. That brought back a lot of strange feelings. On my mission these guys used to terrorize us in NYC. At that time they went by Hebrew Israelites. They were especially scary in Brooklyn in the early 90’s. Brooklyn in the early 90’s didn’t need help in being scary. One time we had a group of them that would be waiting outside our building for us every morning. This went on for 5 days. They would follow us everywhere we went. Screaming at anyone who would dare talk to us. Threatening to kill anyone who talked to us. Threatened to kill us many times. Would push us around trying to get us to fight back so they could beat on us. Calling us all sorts of vulgar and racist names. And they loved the homophobic, vulgar, racist comments in the same rant. It was weird. And honestly, that was the most stressful week of my life. One day was bizarre. By day 5 I was at the end of my rope. Luckily they weren’t there on the 6th day and never followed us around again.

    I have no idea what really happened at the LM, but hearing those guys were involved, I can’t imagine that the high school kids were completely at fault. In my experience, they are not the most freedom of speech and peace loving kind of guys.
    A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life. - Mohammad Ali

  4. #94

  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by CJF View Post
    I hadn’t paid much attention to the Lincoln Memorial story. I did see something on Twitter tonight that said Black Hebrew Israelites we’re in involved. That brought back a lot of strange feelings. On my mission these guys used to terrorize us in NYC. At that time they went by Hebrew Israelites. They were especially scary in Brooklyn in the early 90’s. Brooklyn in the early 90’s didn’t need help in being scary. One time we had a group of them that would be waiting outside our building for us every morning. This went on for 5 days. They would follow us everywhere we went. Screaming at anyone who would dare talk to us. Threatening to kill anyone who talked to us. Threatened to kill us many times. Would push us around trying to get us to fight back so they could beat on us. Calling us all sorts of vulgar and racist names. And they loved the homophobic, vulgar, racist comments in the same rant. It was weird. And honestly, that was the most stressful week of my life. One day was bizarre. By day 5 I was at the end of my rope. Luckily they weren’t there on the 6th day and never followed us around again.

    I have no idea what really happened at the LM, but hearing those guys were involved, I can’t imagine that the high school kids were completely at fault. In my experience, they are not the most freedom of speech and peace loving kind of guys.
    Looking at this through a lens of tribal dynamics, this is very interesting. There are 3 tribes represented, Hebrew Israelites (HI), Native Americans (NA), and a group of HS kids. The first confrontation is actually between the HI and the NA tribes. The HS kids are just part of a broader audience watching the confrontation. At one point (maybe because the NA weren't backing down), the leader of the HI's turns his rhetoric away from the NA's and begins to address the HS kids. The monologue from the HI leader goes on for quite some time. Note that all three tribes are sporting their ceremonial clothing and accouterments that are sacred to their tribe.

    Once the attention is placed on the HS students, they immediately begin to circle. The HS tribe pulls together. That allows the HI leader to focus his rhetoric on a common enemy. With the focus now directed at them, the HS students soon thereafter begin invoking their common learned sacred rituals. They begin chanting school slogans and cheers. One of them disrobes in the common athletic competitive form--the removal of the shirt and corresponding faux rage and flex. This change of focus by the HI opens the door for the NA tribe to ally with them in a fight, which they eventually do. The HI members had constrained themselves to vigorous oral slurs and abusive language, but the NA tribal leader is willing to shift the nature of the confrontation by physically moving into the space occupied by the HS students' defensive circle.

    Most of the circle parts and lets the NA members flow freely among them and react mostly by smiling and incorporating the beat of the drums into their own tribal rituals--dancing to the beat of a drum at an athletic competition. (Many view this as a sign of disrespect, but the HS students where chanting their sacred incantations first, so if there was disrespect, it was intentional by the NA tribe.) As long as the HS students allow free flow within the circle, there is no sign of progression of hostilities. One student chooses not to move and is singled out by the NA tribal leader. He stands quietly, but refuses to give further ground within his own circle. This is expected behavior. One tribe attempts to assert their authority by invading the defensive circle, and is actively seeking someone willing to confront it. There's an assertion of dominance by the NA leader, and a member of HS tribe rises to the challenge.

    Then the mouthpiece of the NA tribe engages the mouthpiece of the HS tribe in argument about the right of the HS kids to occupy the space that rightfully belongs to the NA tribe. It's interesting that neither the NA leader nor the HS student leader engage in debate. In fact the HS leader attempts to silence his own member and encourages him to respectfully not engage--encouraging silent resistance. The NA mouthpiece invokes history "millions of years", but the HS mouthpiece counters with even more ancient history, that all life emerged from Africa--equalizing the claims through a call to brotherhood.

    All in all, fairly fascinating, the restraint of the HS students by choosing only to defensively circle and then not to escalate when physical penetration of their space occurred is remarkable.
    Last edited by swampfrog; 01-22-2019 at 05:10 AM. Reason: grammar

  6. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by swampfrog View Post
    Looking at this through a lens of tribal dynamics, this is very interesting. There are 3 tribes represented, Hebrew Israelites (HI), Native Americans (NA), and a group of HS kids. The first confrontation is actually between the HI and the NA tribes. The HS kids are just part of a broader audience watching the confrontation. At one point (maybe because the NA weren't backing down), the leader of the HI's turns his rhetoric away from the NA's and begins to address the HS kids. The monologue from the HI leader goes on for quite some time. Note that all three tribes are sporting their ceremonial clothing and accouterments that are sacred to their tribe.

    Once the attention is placed on the HS students, they immediately begin to circle. The HS tribe pulls together. That allows the HI leader to focus his rhetoric on a common enemy. With the focus now directed at them, the HS students soon thereafter begin invoking their common learned sacred rituals. They begin chanting school slogans and cheers. One of them disrobes in the common athletic competitive form--the removal of the shirt and corresponding faux rage and flex. This change of focus by the HI opens the door for the NA tribe to ally with them in a fight, which they eventually do. The HI members had constrained themselves to vigorous oral slurs and abusive language, but the NA tribal leader is willing to shift the nature of the confrontation by physically moving into the space occupied by the HS students' defensive circle.

    Most of the circle parts and lets the NA members flow freely among them and react mostly by smiling and incorporating the beat of the drums into their own tribal rituals--dancing to the beat of a drum at an athletic competition. (Many view this as a sign of disrespect, but the HS students where chanting their sacred incantations first, so if there was disrespect, it was intentional by the NA tribe.) As long as the HS students allow free flow within the circle, there is no sign of progression of hostilities. One student chooses not to move and is singled out by the NA tribal leader. He stands quietly, but refuses to give further ground within his own circle. This is expected behavior. One tribe attempts to assert their authority by invading the defensive circle, and is actively seeking someone willing to confront it. There's an assertion of dominance by the NA leader, and a member of HS tribe rises to the challenge.

    Then the mouthpiece of the NA tribe engages the mouthpiece of the HS tribe in argument about the right of the HS kids to occupy the space that rightfully belongs to the NA tribe. It's interesting that neither the NA leader nor the HS student leader engage in debate. In fact the HS leader attempts to silence his own member and encourages him to respectfully not engage--encouraging silent resistance. The NA mouthpiece invokes history "millions of years", but the HS mouthpiece counters with even more ancient history, that all life emerged from Africa--equalizing the claims through a call to brotherhood.

    All in all, fairly fascinating, the restraint of the HS students by choosing only to defensively circle and then not to escalate when physical penetration of their space occurred is remarkable.
    Spontaneously doing the tomohawk chop, happens all the time.

  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    Spontaneously doing the tomohawk chop, happens all the time.
    I assume you can link this? I saw one kid doing this briefly in what I've viewed--and it was very quick. And since many of them are likely sports fans, then yes apparently hundreds of thousands of people can be spontaneously motivated to do the first down signal tomahawk chop.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    Spontaneously doing the tomohawk chop, happens all the time.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
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    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  9. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Whoah! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Not cool!

  10. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by swampfrog View Post
    I assume you can link this? I saw one kid doing this briefly in what I've viewed--and it was very quick. And since many of them are likely sports fans, then yes apparently hundreds of thousands of people can be spontaneously motivated to do the first down signal tomahawk chop.
    Look, yes the kids from Kentucky were FSU fans and felt like it was a great idea. The kids got a raw deal with the doxxing and threats, but no need to get all hagiographical about them.

  11. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    Look, yes the kids from Kentucky were FSU fans and felt like it was a great idea. The kids got a raw deal with the doxxing and threats, but no need to get all hagiographical about them.
    There were reports of one or two kids doing this--out of 100. Mostly I just saw expressions of bewilderment, they didn't know how to act. They had been chanting their own stuff, to drown out the Hebrew Israelite abuse, and were approached by the Native tribe. What exactly do we expect they were supposed to think of that? Were the tribal members joining them? Were they seeking confrontation? Of course they didn't know how to act. I truly believe given the circumstances and their age and taken as a whole, their behavior was laudatory.

    This still appears to me to be a Native elder, who has significant experience with activism, attempting to provoke an incident by bullying children to promote his cause. I cannot view his comments to the media post-confrontation as anything other than outright falsehoods with the intent of at minimum generating viral propaganda. His version of events is contradicted by the visual evidence. His agenda for the entire event is fairly transparent. The possibility of catching a young MAGA hat wearer in an altercation with a native american protester was too good to pass up.

  12. #102

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    Sounds like the Covington students have been invited to visit Trump.

    Oh. Yay. I'm sure this is finally going to promote healing and understanding, and not at all flame further division.

  13. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    Sounds like the Covington students have been invited to visit Trump.

    Oh. Yay. I'm sure this is finally going to promote healing and understanding, and not at all flame further division.
    Called it.

  14. #104
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    Hey, do y'all know where I can get the t-shirt version of this? Asking for a friend.

    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  15. #105
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Hey, do y'all know where I can get the t-shirt version of this? Asking for a friend.

    cafepress.com
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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  16. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    Sounds like the Covington students have been invited to visit Trump.

    Oh. Yay. I'm sure this is finally going to promote healing and understanding, and not at all flame further division.
    Yeah, that's not helpful. If cooler heads prevail they'll decline the invitation.

  17. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    Sounds like the Covington students have been invited to visit Trump.

    Oh. Yay. I'm sure this is finally going to promote healing and understanding, and not at all flame further division.

    Sounds like the kids' school has been shutdown due to all the death/bomb/shooting/etc threats... so they may have some time on their hands for another road trip. I wonder if they they will get some big macs?

    ytf5no9q7wb21.jpg
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  18. #108
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Kathy Griffin seems like a nice person.

    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  19. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by swampfrog View Post
    Yeah, that's not helpful. If cooler heads prevail they'll decline the invitation.
    Unlikely. If you're not a woke professional sports team, you don't have the cred to decline a presidential invite. They do not strike me as woke.

  20. #110
    Senior Member SteelBlue's Avatar
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    Maybe this whole thing is a live episode of Black Mirror.

  21. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    Spontaneously doing the tomohawk chop, happens all the time.
    Serious Frank?

    So - there are three groups of people there. Two of them (Black Israelies & Native Americans) - full of adults - are shouting stuff back and forth. One of the ADULTS from one of those groups enters the space being occupied by the third group (the high school kids), seemingly looking for a confrontation. The high school kids just stand there. THEY JUST STAND THERE. And you are going to put the blame on the kids for being there and not initiating anything instead of on the adult who tried to escalate things?

    The Black Israelites (adults) are yelling all kinds of foul things, in fact in one video I heard they were the ones actually yelling "Build that wall" - though in a sarcastic way that seems to be intended to make fun of the MAGA gear the kids are wearing. I have heard that video - I haven't seen or heard any video where the kids are saying it - which is what Phillips claims.

    Look - I get that these groups are all at the capital. I get that they are each involved in their own protest of one thing or another. I get that some of these protests I would be more sympathetic of than others.

    But I can't think of ANY situation in which I would blame a high school kid for standing there calmly (smirky punchable face or not) when an adult is entering their space, getting in their face, and seemingly wanting to initiate a confrontation.

    Phillips is now saying he got between the two groups in order to stop things between the students and the Black Israelies. He actually says that the Black Israelies started it - but then he walked into the middle of the high school kids - not between them. When's the last time you saw someone try to stop an confrontation from escalating by getting in the middle of a group and walking right up to someone and getting that close to their face? If that's what he was doing, why didn't he actually get BETWEEN the group?

    I know I have my biases - but once again you show an inability to even consider the role someone else may play in these situations. Simply because it is so much easier to put blame on the person you disagree with.

  22. #112

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    "Outlined against a blue, gray
    October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
    Grantland Rice, 1924

  23. #113

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    my grandma posted that meme on the facebooks
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  24. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    my grandma posted that meme on the facebooks
    You should give this one to your grandma to post... It made me laugh:

    pqt83hypg1c21.jpg
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  25. #115
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Kathy Griffin seems like a nice person.

    She has such a punchable face...
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  26. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    You should give this one to your grandma to post... It made me laugh:

    pqt83hypg1c21.jpg
    just because he drives a go kart and goes through people’s trash doesn’t mean he killed those kids
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  27. #117
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    just because he drives a go kart and goes through people’s trash doesn’t mean he killed those kids
    "What the f*ck is the right answer to that?"
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

    "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

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  28. #118
    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    https://twitter.com/iowahawkblog/sta...435037185?s=19

    "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
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  29. #119

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    This may be the most important takeaway from the whole situation.

    Yes, the confrontation between a teenage boy in a MAGA hat and an older Native American at the Lincoln Memorial last Friday was a sick spectacle. If you recoiled when you first saw it online, you were right to be disgusted. But you shouldn't conclude -- no matter what version of the video you saw -- that it captures some meaningful reflection of human nature or even America's current cultural divide.
    In this episode in particular, we now know, the video only went viral after it was posted on a network of anonymous and spoofed Twitter accounts used specifically to promote divisive, sensationalist stories on all sides of the political spectrum. Yes, it seems there are people, organizations, and even whole countries who use social media to provoke and confirm our worst fears of one another.
    Bad actors hoping to stoke our fear or rage by using these platforms, which are specifically designed to bypass our higher faculties -- our common sense or empathy -- and reach right down into our brainstem so that we click on ads and stay glued to the screen. They use Las Vegas slot machine algorithms in our feeds. That's what we're up against, here.

    The "reptile brain" these platforms trigger doesn't engage in prosocial behaviors. Instead, in an environment of weaponized memes and isolated by social media, human beings become more entrenched in their positions and driven by a fear for their personal survival.
    Instead of becoming aware of the way digital media and dangerously manipulative social media platforms can lead us toward hateful, entrenched positions and behaviors, we instead fall victim to those who intentionally leverage these platforms to whip us up into a frenzy. Is the video of those boys indicative of some social illness? Yes. Is it emblematic of our national psyche or underlying nature? Only if we choose it to be.

    The internet doesn't have to be used against a person's critical faculties any more than language has to be used to lie. But each extension of our social reality into a new medium requires we make a conscious effort to bring our humanity along with us.

  30. #120
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampfrog View Post
    This may be the most important takeaway from the whole situation.
    Initially posted by fake twitter accounts.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/tech/...ens/index.html

    Lol. People are like sheep.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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