Abandoned LDS Churches

[myboynoah]

lol

[BrutusBuckeye]

In the early 60's the LDS church in the city of Santaquin, UT abandoned their pioneer-era chapel (due to growth!) and build a big new church. They eventually sold the old chapel to the Assembly of God church, who used it for many years. Then the city bought it back from the church, restored it, and turned it into a library. Beautiful building, inside and out. Glad they saved it.

It's not nearly as nice, but the city of Milford, Utah bought the old LDS chapel and uses it for city offices. I couldn't find a photo.

[cougjunkie]

It is very noble of the LDS Church to build City Creek in an effort to save the neighborhood surrounding their own headquarters. Also, I think we can all acknowledge that the LDS Church abandons various buildings for different reasons--some good, and some bad.

In terms of mocking Byron Marchant (using a photo of the actual Byron Marchant), consider the following:

1. Byron Marchant opposed the ban on black men having the priesthood.
2. He was employed by the Church.
3. He lost his job because he did what was right even though the Church was doing something racist.
4. Not long after these events, the Church changed their policy on black men having the priesthood.

The Church has never apologized to the actual Byron Marchant--something any honorable church would do. The Church refuses to do honorable things like apologize to good people like the actual Byron Marchant (or to all black men across the world prior to 1978) because the Church's pride is more important than doing what's right.

The Church did manage to apologize for Mountain Meadows about 150 years after it occured. This made news, since it was a departure from the Church's traditional behavior, and further supports my argument about the Church's pride since it took 150 years for an open apology for Mormons' commission of the greatest massacre of innocent Americans prior to September 11th, 2001.

I love how you are going through your faith crisis about 20 years after everyone else. Makes me laugh. Keep it up chief! I hope you figure it out. At least you will always have the memory of your game winner in the stake regional tournament!

[Eddie]

...it took 150 years for an open apology for Mormons' commission of the greatest massacre of innocent Americans prior to September 11th, 2001.

You sure about that?

I think Mountain Meadows resulted in 120 deaths. Awful, to be sure.

However...

The massacre at Lawrence, Kansas during the civil war resulted in around 200 boys and men being executed.

The massacre at Fort Pillow, Tennessee, resulted in the death of nearly 300 Union soldiers - most of whom were in the act of surrender at the time.

In Goliad, Texas, more than 300 prisoners were executed during the war with Mexico.

The Fort Mims massacre in Alabama resulted in 400-500 settlers being killed.

The "battle" of Tallushatchee (Alabama) resulted in more than 200 killed.

The Autossee Massacre (Alabama) also resulted in more than 200 killed - prior to the village being set fire.

The "battle" of Bad Axe (Wisconsin) resulted in around 150 killed.

The Amador Massacre (California) resulted in 200 killed.

The Colorado River massacre resulted in 140 killed.

The Clear Lake massacre - 150 killed.

The Sacramento River massacre - as many as 200 killed.

The Old Shasta Town massacre - around 300 killed.

Bridge Gulch massacre - 150 killed.

Yontoket Massacre - 450 killed.

Round Valley Massacres - 600 killed over the course of the spring/summer.

Indian Island massacre - 200+ killed.

Horse Canyon massacre - 240 killed.

Cookes Canyon massacres - "hundreds" killed over several months.

Tonkawa massacre - 240 killed.

Bear River massacre - 280 killed.

Oak Run massacre - 300 killed.

Sand Creek massacre - 160+ killed.

Washita massacre - 140 killed.

Marias massacre - 173 killed.

I could go on...

Again. Not to excuse the MMM. But your hyperbole is a little over the top.

[taekwondave]

You sure about that?

I think Mountain Meadows resulted in 120 deaths. Awful, to be sure.

However...

The massacre at Lawrence, Kansas during the civil war resulted in around 200 boys and men being executed.

The massacre at Fort Pillow, Tennessee, resulted in the death of nearly 300 Union soldiers - most of whom were in the act of surrender at the time.

In Goliad, Texas, more than 300 prisoners were executed during the war with Mexico.

The Fort Mims massacre in Alabama resulted in 400-500 settlers being killed.

The "battle" of Tallushatchee (Alabama) resulted in more than 200 killed.

The Autossee Massacre (Alabama) also resulted in more than 200 killed - prior to the village being set fire.

The "battle" of Bad Axe (Wisconsin) resulted in around 150 killed.

The Amador Massacre (California) resulted in 200 killed.

The Colorado River massacre resulted in 140 killed.

The Clear Lake massacre - 150 killed.

The Sacramento River massacre - as many as 200 killed.

The Old Shasta Town massacre - around 300 killed.

Bridge Gulch massacre - 150 killed.

Yontoket Massacre - 450 killed.

Round Valley Massacres - 600 killed over the course of the spring/summer.

Indian Island massacre - 200+ killed.

Horse Canyon massacre - 240 killed.

Cookes Canyon massacres - "hundreds" killed over several months.

Tonkawa massacre - 240 killed.

Bear River massacre - 280 killed.

Oak Run massacre - 300 killed.

Sand Creek massacre - 160+ killed.

Washita massacre - 140 killed.

Marias massacre - 173 killed.

I could go on...

Again. Not to excuse the MMM. But your hyperbole is a little over the top.

Maybe he meant "the greatest massacre of innocent Americans on September 11th prior to September 11th, 2001."

[Pelado]

I thought Pearl Harbor was kind of bad, too.

[Eddie]

I thought Pearl Harbor was kind of bad, too.

Pearl Harbor might fit.

Very similar to some of the "battles" I listed in which the cavalry ran roughshod over an unsuspecting Indian village. Often there were warriors there, but they were sleeping and/or unprepared. Which fits the Pearl Harbor story all too well.

[grapevine]

I donlt know what Uncle Teds old church is used for now. Used to be Jehvahs Witness church I think then used for other things. Maybe it is totally abandoned. Church I went to until about 5 school bought it for early grades and we went to Shoshone to church. Urimated a few people off. Bought trailer to use as seminary building and had Spanish Branch. When Bob was Presidimg Bishop came to our stake conference and our so in Ward talked him into getting chapel in our town. Acey who rolled ranger and in hospital for a few months bought home church. We now have two wards meeting in it with some members from town next door.

After bond family that adopted 20 kids bought the home. Had a zoo in there. Two married biological kids of mother lived there for some time. So it was private residence. They had dogs, chickens, goats yu name it. Some daughters moved out of town after getting pregnant do to the judge mental assholes in town. I think some biological kids of Father or grandkids moved there. They recently moved by some of Goats relatives, another family bought that home, our led church we outgrew.

Wife related to Lane somehow, Coach Vines football team helped them move something and learned that. Still throttled Scoties alma mater but had star player get hurt with symptoms day after. May of cost us quarterfinal against atomic town which petitioned to stay at 2a for many years but gave bull shit reason to stay at div 2. They got throttled against Kendrick in Kibbie Dome. Will be d 1 next cycle.

My 5 year old nephew threw eggs at people helping them move saying the eggs were dead. When house was cleaned. Still a lot of work to do in that house. But family living in old building. On Facebook page of Ancestors of mine that lived in Ogden talked about church great grandparents went too. I think it is abanded. Still may be there. But interesting what has happened to older churches.

From time to time I would go to BYU games at the church if they were not televised locally. Don,t know if church does that anymore or not. Heard of people with keys that would not mind going and watching any game satellite would key them. Don,t know who did that.

[ByronMarchant]

Dear Eddie,

That's an awful list of massacres, isn't it.

But let's go through some simple facts:
1) Native Americans were not American citizens until 1924. That's a fact. Should have been, but they weren't. My statement was about massacres of Americans.
2) California was not part of the United States even as a territory during some of the massacres you cite... But I'm guessing you didn't realize that.
3) That war-related massacres have occurred goes without saying. Mountain Meadows was a terrorist attack on a wagon train. It is not comparable to a civil war atrocity. Wars are different from terrorist attacks.
4) You cite numbers for massacres for which there is no reliable source--with huge estimated ranges between 30 and 500--and then you cherry pick the high estimate. That is a pretty full-of-shit thing to do.


I think it is flat out disgusting that you would take other massacres as a way of minimizing Mountain Meadows and discrediting fully justified criticism of Mormon revisionist history and failure to apologize for their crimes until more than 150 years later.

Finally, why don't you watch the PBS Mormons documentary and see how reputable academic historians label Mountain Meadows there. You might be surprised.

[tooblue]

Dear Eddie,

That's an awful list of massacres, isn't it.

But let's go through some simple facts:
1) Native Americans were not American citizens until 1924. That's a fact. Should have been, but they weren't. My statement was about massacres of Americans.
2) California was not part of the United States even as a territory during some of the massacres you cite... But I'm guessing you didn't realize that.
3) That war-related massacres have occurred goes without saying. Mountain Meadows was a terrorist attack on a wagon train. It is not comparable to a civil war atrocity. Wars are different from terrorist attacks.
4) You cite numbers for massacres for which there is no reliable source--with huge estimated ranges between 30 and 500--and then you cherry pick the high estimate. That is a pretty full-of-shit thing to do.


I think it is flat out disgusting that you would take other massacres as a way of minimizing Mountain Meadows and discrediting fully justified criticism of Mormon revisionist history and failure to apologize for their crimes until more than 150 years later.

Finally, why don't you watch the PBS Mormons documentary and see how reputable academic historians label Mountain Meadows there. You might be surprised.

Wait, are you saying that Native Americans are not Americans, even though you label them Americans, regardless the use of the qualifying word “native?” As such, is that how you justify declaring that “Native Americans,” are not equally human and therefore their massacre is less worthy of being considered comparable, on any level, to that of other Americans?

That’s reprehensible.

[ByronMarchant]

Wait, are you saying that Native Americans are not Americans, even though you label them Americans, regardless the use of the qualifying word “native?” As such, is that how you justify declaring that “Native Americans,” are not equally human and therefore their massacre is less worthy of being considered comparable, on any level, to that of other Americans?

That’s reprehensible.

I said they should have been US Citizens but weren't. I never said they weren't comparable or equal.

But a massacre outside the United States (e.g., in California in the 1830s) is not a massacre of Americans.

Or if you want to do it your way--why not include massacres from South America by the conquistadors.

Words have definitions. Countries have borders. Events have features. War events are not the same as terrorist attacks. My statement was comparing terrorist massacres of US Citizens.

I didn't say "The worst massacre ever in North America" or "The worst massacre ever in the Western Hemisphere."

I was comparing it to other terrorist attacks against American citizens on US soil.

[falafel]

Dear Eddie,

That's an awful list of massacres, isn't it.

But let's go through some simple facts:
1) Native Americans were not American citizens until 1924. That's a fact. Should have been, but they weren't. My statement was about massacres of Americans.
2) California was not part of the United States even as a territory during some of the massacres you cite... But I'm guessing you didn't realize that.
3) That war-related massacres have occurred goes without saying. Mountain Meadows was a terrorist attack on a wagon train. It is not comparable to a civil war atrocity. Wars are different from terrorist attacks.
4) You cite numbers for massacres for which there is no reliable source--with huge estimated ranges between 30 and 500--and then you cherry pick the high estimate. That is a pretty full-of-shit thing to do.


I think it is flat out disgusting that you would take other massacres as a way of minimizing Mountain Meadows and discrediting fully justified criticism of Mormon revisionist history and failure to apologize for their crimes until more than 150 years later.

Finally, why don't you watch the PBS Mormons documentary and see how reputable academic historians label Mountain Meadows there. You might be surprised.

Sort of like speculating without any evidence about how LDS general authorities are getting stock in the church.

[Moliere]

Sort of like speculating without any evidence about how LDS general authorities are getting stock in the church.

Can GAs even get stock in the church? Isn't it a Corporation Sole? I figured that meant TSM held all stock in the church but I'm no corporate lawyer.

[ByronMarchant]

Sort of like speculating without any evidence about how LDS general authorities are getting stock in the church.

I didn't say stock in the Church. I said stock in general. Retirement, of sorts.

Openly speculating is different from cherry picking the highest version of a very wide range of estimated numbers and stating it as fact.

[ByronMarchant]

No one ever said stock IN THE CHURCH.

I said STOCK.

Is this CougarBoard? Very unimpressed by the reading comprehension here.