Mormon WikiLeaks (MormonLeaks)

[Green Monstah]

That's a big difference.

How so?

I believe she said "you tried to rape me" and that the only reason he wasn't successful was because he couldn't maintain an erection.

Her account in the transcript is not inconsistent with her testimony to the BYU PD.

[MartyFunkhouser]

Call me crazy, but I doubt Bishop was raping people to push them out of the church. Its not an insignificant distinction, at least for me.

It makes it even worse, IMO. If someone thinks the LDS church is either bullshit as a whole (Dehlin/Runnells) or that it is wrong on a key point (Kelly/Snuffer), the act of encouraging people to their belief is actually an act of trying to help the person or the church. If someone believes in the church and uses a position of Priesthood authority to rape (knowing a possible outcome of the scenario is the victim leaving the church), that person is engaging in a much worse behavior. Not that we are ranking sins here, just saying I'm not sure this is a point in his favor.

[creekster]

How so?

I believe she said "you tried to rape me" and that the only reason he wasn't successful was because he couldn't maintain an erection.

Her account in the transcript is not inconsistent with her testimony to the BYU PD.

Typically penetration, to some slight degree, is required to prove the crime of rape. Or at least it used to be when I went to law school in the dark ages.

[Green Monstah]

Typically penetration, to some slight degree, is required to prove the crime of rape.

Irrelevant, since the statute of limitations has run.

We're not talking "can he be prosecuted?" or "is he guilty of rape as defined in the statute?", correct?

The fact that she didn't specifically state, "you tried to rape me, but were only successful by two inches before you stopped your assault" in their conversation doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[snowcat]

That's a big difference.

I am not so sure, the mental damage done by this leader to a very venerable young woman who likely held him in very high regard would have to be severe with or without actual "rape". As a father of two daughters it makes absolutely sick.

[jay santos]

How so?

I believe she said "you tried to rape me" and that the only reason he wasn't successful was because he couldn't maintain an erection.

Her account in the transcript is not inconsistent with her testimony to the BYU PD.

Yeah, I think we've been through this. But to me, "you tried to rape me but couldn't because of your erection" is ambiguous to whether he intended to or not. Reality kicks in at the last minute and he decides not to do it...that would look the same to a victim. But anyway, that reported removed all doubt. Sick.

The more I hear on this case, the more I believe the woman, both that he raped her, and that she talked to Asay about it.

[creekster]

Irrelevant, since the statute of limitations has run.

We're not talking "can he be prosecuted?" or "is he guilty of rape as defined in the statute?", correct?

The fact that she didn't specifically state, "you tried to rape me, but were only successful by two inches before you stopped your assault" in their conversation doesn't mean it didn't happen.

That is true, although she may not have known the statute had run. And a factual inconsistency might be a basis to evaluate her credibility. But I don't think it makes any difference to ecclesiastical issues.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Joanna Brooks takes a shot on FB:

my church bars me from sacramental communion with children whose parents happen to be gay but not with men who admit to exploitation of the vulnerable.

[creekster]

Joanna Brooks takes a shot on FB:

I dislike that she uses this crime to climb on her bully pulpit. It's like "we can put a man on the moon, but we can't . . . ."

[Jeff Lebowski]

Joanna Brooks takes a shot on FB:

Good grief.

One of the reasons I can't stomach her anymore.

[falafel]

It makes it even worse, IMO. If someone thinks the LDS church is either bullshit as a whole (Dehlin/Runnells) or that it is wrong on a key point (Kelly/Snuffer), the act of encouraging people to their belief is actually an act of trying to help the person or the church. If someone believes in the church and uses a position of Priesthood authority to rape (knowing a possible outcome of the scenario is the victim leaving the church), that person is engaging in a much worse behavior. Not that we are ranking sins here, just saying I'm not sure this is a point in his favor.

Your first point really depends on your perspective regarding the church, so I'm not ready to laud as heroes people like Dehlin and Snuffer. They think they are helping, others think they are causing damage.

I doubt Bishop was thinking of anything beyond his own sexual gratification when he was grooming women and/or raping them, so I'm reluctant to assign to his actions all the potential negative consequences of those actions.

[SeattleUte]

Good grief.

One of the reasons I can't stomach her anymore.

SWISH! I was the one here who first called her an opportunist. When she was being interviewed by all the news outlets about Presidential candidate Mitt’s sect, and what they wanted to hear was progmo stuff, she gave it, and you all ate it up. You said I was jealous.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

(and I'm talking real-life friends, not internet people).

Why the differentiation? I realize it’s a small point and completely off topic, but would it affect your struggles with these situations happening inside the church if only your internet friends experienced it? No snark intended in this, it just made me feel sad. Lol

[falafel]

That is true, although she may not have known the statute had run. And a factual inconsistency might be a basis to evaluate her credibility. But I don't think it makes any difference to ecclesiastical issues.

She mentions in the transcript that she had counsel, and then later that "the statute of limitations has not run" on his crimes. Which leads me to believe she was getting legal advice on that topic.

[Jeff Lebowski]

SWISH! I was the one here who first called her an opportunist. When she was being interviewed by all the news outlets about Presidential candidate Mitt’s sect, and what they wanted to hear was progmo stuff, she gave it, and you all ate it up. You said I was jealous.

Ok. That swish is allowed.